San Bernardino NF. Turkey Transplants and the DFG & NWTF

[BigBearMike]

Hi All:

Has anyone had any luck in the SBNF recently? I live up here in Big Bear, and saw turkey twice in the fall last year, but after two weeks of hard pre-season scouting this spring all I can find are bears, quail, and deer. At this point I'd just be happy to see a bird or two, just to know that there is still something out there to be chasing. Is it just me, or is this really the current state of the forest?

Thanks, Mike

[Farmerdoug]

I hunted near Crab Flats on Saturday, and the south side of GVL on Sunday. I didn't hear or see jack s#!t. My brother ran into a few hikers near Silverwood who said they had seen a couple recently. Don't know the validity of the hikers though.

[BigBearMike]

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. As part of my scouting I contacted the USFS, who, aside from the "can't you just go buy a turkey at Stater Bros" had only anecdotal info at best to offer, and DFG never returned my calls...

In speaking with my community sources, everyone knows someone who's seen turkey in the past... but when you ask that person, they either heard from someone else, or its been 5-10 years since they've seen them.

What's a guy to do?

[yucaipa mike]

HEY, BIGBEARMIKE ME JESSE HAD BEEN SCOUTING AROUND THERE HAVE`NT
SEEN ANYTHING YET.BUT WE BEEN HEARING THAT THEY HANGING AROUND
SUGAR LOAF.

[weto]

I was all up in the miller canyon area couple weeks ago scouting around but didnt see any sign of them birds.

-E

[yucaipa mike]

Originally Posted by yucaipa mike

HEY, BIGBEARMIKE ME JESSE HAD BEEN SCOUTING AROUND THERE HAVE`NT
SEEN ANYTHING YET.BUT WE BEEN HEARING THAT THEY HANGING AROUND
SUGAR LOAF.

WE WELL BE UP THERE FRIDAY.

[BigBearMike]

Yup thats what I've been hearing too, and thats the only area I've seen them in the past. (38 @ Lake Williams) The problem being, at least for now, is since that area is north-facing, USFS still has all their gates locked. I'll check tomorrow. You might have to hike. But good luck, let me know how it goes.

[Farmerdoug]

"In speaking with my community sources, everyone knows someone who's seen turkey in the past... but when you ask that person, they either heard from someone else, or its been 5-10 years since they've seen them."

That 5-10 year rule is about right. Its been about that long since I saw birds at Willow Creek near 3N34. I have been back a few times over the last few years and haven't seen anything. I have hiked from 2N75 to the old water treatment plant to the staging area by the rifle range with no luck. I have given up on the area for now. And your right about the he said she said sightnings. In the future I think I am going to give Barton Flats and the area west of Fawnskin a try.

[yucaipa mike]

SOME PEOPLE SAID THERE ARE UP STILL UP AROUND 3N34 AND MILLER CANYON.

[BigBearMike]

They very well might be over in Miller Canyon... thats the one area I haven't looked yet... good luck, I hope somebody finds something.

[Farmerdoug]

I hit an old spot near Lake Arrowhead (4770' high) this weekend and ran into these tracks on a motorcycle trail. We followed them for about 40 yrds and they dissapeared off the trail. Not a classic looking track to me, but a pretty good size next to my size 11 shoe print. Turkeys might still be around Arrowhead after all.

[BigBearMike]

Well what with the light snow predicted later this week, there should be a good opportunity for tracking... I just hope we don't get slammed and they just shut down and hole up to ride out the storm.

[spectr17]

I don't think those are turkeys tracks. Turkey toes are wide, not close together like those pics.

[Farmerdoug]

Originally Posted by spectr17

I don't think those are turkeys tracks. Turkey toes are wide, not close together like those pics.

That's exactly what I thought, but they were so darn big. Too big to be mountain quail and too far in the forest to be a road runner?

[buckfever07]

Erik (Weto) sent me this earlier in the week when we were talking about turkey tracks. It looks like it would be closer to a heron track. but, what the hell would a heron be doing there?


Jr

[spectr17]

I'm gonna say one of them big azz red headed woodpeckers. Pileated? One of them red headed peckers I see up there has big feet.

[buckfever07]

Jesse,
Are you talking about Erik? Because he is a pecker but you know he doesn't have red hair!

Jr

[BigBearMike]

Alright fellas... we're almost 3 weeks in to the season, and still nothing. So while I still believe there are turkey in the SBNF, the next question is, what do we, as hunter/conservationists, need to do to get NWTF to plant a bunch of birds in the SBNF to supplement the existing population? Hound DFG? Buy the DFG biologist lunch? Whats the deal?

Mike

[weto]

The inland empire NWTF is working toward this goal. Jesse, Mike and several others are in contact with the Forestry, DFG regarding this. Of course with almost everything that is related to government there is a path of red tape a mile wide.

Significant progress is being made though and while supplementing the population may not happen this year it does look like it will happen.

Looks like you are from up the mountain but the IE chapter of NWTF has a meeting the first wedesday of the month at 6:30 at Bass Pro in Rancho Cucamonga.

We usually have a status update and get details on what else we can do to help get the job done.

-e

[baco]

There still up there I've been keeping track of a small bunch I have known about for a while now around 15 birds. Just not enough to hunt in my opinion

[TonyS]

As I understand the matter of SBNF turkey plants, there are two entities to deal with DFG and SBNF. From my conversation with the regional NWTF rep, one of the entities has given a go-ahead. The other is holding back for who knows what reason.

As my understanding goes, the birds to be planted would be captured from nuisance birds probably up north (caught by net) and then transported and released here.

Baco: If we are thinking about the same location I believe there are two flocks not just one. At least, before opening day they were separated. But you are right there are not many birds. From my conversation, we need to get some evidence of the birds for submission to I believe it is DFG. Then something could happen.

I am hoping Jesse will share some of the info he received at the last meeting.

Good luck!

[spectr17]

buckfever, don't pick on Erik.

I missed the last Inland Empire Chapter meeting. I'm told by Dave Halbrook,NWTF Regional Director for SoCal, that they need a MOU (Memo Of Understanding) signed off by DFG and the local SBNF. SBNF is ready to sign I'm told but DFG is the hangup. Jeff V, the local DFG biologist from Big Bear, also handles the sheep, bald eagles counts and other duties. We need another biologist to help Jeff or even one assigned to the turkeys in SBNF and their transplant program. San Diego has a turkey biologist that has a nice program going, why don't we?

We need to speak up and turn up the flame on this, I keep hearing "Maybe next year" on the transplants. I've been hearing excuses for no transplants for over 10 years now and it's getting real old. Last excuse was we needed proof of turkeys still in the SBNF. We have proof now the turkeys are still in the SBNF with pics and sightings but are bracing ourselves for the newest BS excuse for why no transplants.

The NWTF and us need to start stepping into the DFG for answers on why Bakersfield is getting turkeys but we are not when we have a bigger demand from hunters. WTH over? Why is San Diego overcrowded with so many turkey hunters, which is dangerous, when the SBNF having turkeys could take off so much pressure in SD?

Email and phone numbers to ask for something to finally be done. We're all paying our dues, going to banquets and buying Upland Birds stamps, how about some of all that money come back to us locals folks who hunt the SBNF?

Dave Halbrook, NWTF Regional Director for SoCal - nrajrc@msn.com. PH# 760-553-2794.

Jim Matthews, another local writer that is reporting on the turkey issues in SBNF. - odwriter@verizon.net. PH # 909-887-3444

CA DFG - California Department of Fish & Game

Ryan Mathis - NWTF CA biologist - ryannwtf@yahoo.com. PH# 707-443-1646

Tom Dockter, CA state NWTF board. Email: doccon@caltel.com.
Phone: 209-786-6800.

[slanttop357]

Originally Posted by baco

There still up there I've been keeping track of a small bunch I have known about for a while now around 15 birds. Just not enough to hunt in my opinion

TELL ME WHERE ITS AT I WILL GO BLAST ONE FOR U.DUDE WHAT R U WAITING FOR ?

[TonyS]

His name and email was prominent on the web page so here is what I hope he reads:

Dear Mr. Koch:
As you are undoubtedly aware, right now is turkey season. However, although I know where a resident population is in the San Bernardino National Forest, I can not be sure that my taking a turkey will not destroy the flock. You see it has been over 20 years since turkeys have been relocated to this forest.

Bakersfield gets turkeys. San Diego is full of turkeys AND has a resident turkey biologist.

For years we have been given this excuse and that as to why there is no planting of turkeys here. We have more hunters in this area than the other two areas mentioned.

So why no turkeys for us? The SBNF is willing but there is foot-dragging on the part of the DFG.

If the excuse is there are no turkeys here, then allow me to show YOU personally. If that is what it takes to get turkeys planted I will do that.

Please respond.
Sincerely,

[baco]

Originally Posted by slanttop357

TELL ME WHERE ITS AT I WILL GO BLAST ONE FOR U.DUDE WHAT R U WAITING FOR ?

Sorry dont see the need to be taking a bird out of such a small flock. Call it what you want but its just plain common sense to me you dont just wipe out a flock in order to kill

[BigBearMike]

DFG Contacts:

Donald Koch , Director of the Department of Fish and Game
(916) 653-7667
Director@dfg.ca.gov

Inland Deserts Regional Manager
Curt Taucher, (562) 596-4212
Executive Secretary
Katrina Banda, (562) 596-4212
Also see DFG's "Strategic Plan for Wild Turkey Management"
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunti...urkplan_04.pdf

[yucaipa mike]

HERE ARE SOME MORE NAMES FOR SUPPLEMENTING THE BIRDS.
SO LETS MAKE SOME NOISE GUYS.


Ryan Mathis ryannwtf@yahoo.com
Bob Klotz klotzb@earthlink.net

[buckfever07]

Email sent to Donald Koch. I'll let you know guys know if I hear anything back.

Jr

[chap_dog48]

Dave Halbrook and Ryan Mathis are aware of the situation and are on the same page as most of you guys about getting birds on the SBNF. Dave would love to hunt the birds in his backyard of the SBNF but the forrest the DGF are the stalling points. This is first hand info straight from their mouths. Ryan also would like to see the birds supplemented, he was in San Bernardino in March and discussed the problems with Dave and myself at the DGF commision meeting. Hammering the DGF and Forrest Service is the next steps, because all of the NWTF is ready to go. Just my 2 cents

[chap_dog48]

All those DGF should be DFG