12GA From Hell

[hubel458]

I will be posting more research on this thread
about other powders in 12ga plastic cases,about the
12GA FH loads, about scaled up falling blocks, my 700HE long
belted case, and the 28GA FH.Here is picture of
some other cartridges I have with some of mine.
1st= 408CT, 2nd- T-rex necked to 416- 3rd- 600OK
4th- 510HE, 5th-585HE, 6th-700H 3.25, 7th-12GA FH,
8th-700HE. Last most powerful. Ed

[Speckmisser]

That's just a bloody monster!

But I sure am enjoying this thread.

[hubel458]

Here is pic of the first finished model
breech block for scaleup model. You
hammer and trigger in the back of
the block. Ed

[hubel458]

Another shotgun/rifle experiment is 28ga FH.
Rocky MTN is making me some
3.25 in 28ga cases. They are good to 38k psi.
That will get 500-550 gr out at 2500 in
bolt action.A regular 28ga gun may get to
2000, depending on how heavy barrel is.Should
average 17-1800. Just lengthen chamber.
Get a NEF Ultra cut off leaving breech section
for monoblock and have 28ga rifled barrel
made and screwed or soldered in monoblock.
And being able to hold 38k to match brass,
That would get 2500 fps loads.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of the first falling block
model of aluminum, with a roughed out
stock to see how it looks. Action is a
rough model. It shoulders nice, and
lever is inlet into pistol grip,
so you can't get banged up
fingers with the big cartridges it is designed
for, like levers that stick down at the
guard.Ed

[hubel458]

Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they don't crimp into the
grooves well as sharp bend works thick
mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell
mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure.
Then I use a die with slightly more
taper and swage the mouth into slug, like
the fit you get with bottleneck cases.
Same deal works with our long cases made
from BMG brass.Ed

[Gomer76825]

nice lil pee shooter you got yourself there, holy crap.

[hubel458]

Preliminary testing with VV N-110 powder shows
it works with small primers like the 4759 powder,
in plastic cases. Perfect ignition like the 4759.
Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good
ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr
with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps.
In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus.
In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus.
All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested.
So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun
powders, and much safer to work with for regular
primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed

[hubel458]

Along with the two slower than shotgun powders, IMR 4759
and VV N110 that ignite reliably with shotgun primers,
that are easier to load for slugs, in heavy bbl can
get 20% plus more velocity, I've found another. It is
IMR 7383 $3 a lb surplus. Tested plastic 3" cases, perfect ignition with regular primers. 8 types of cases,600gr slug
starting load 100gr. Full load 140gr giving 1800 fps plus
in 24" bbl NEF.With loads halfway between start and full
didn't even have to resize to shoot again.Full load just has
a card wad under slug in 3" plastic.Wad just tight on
charge, as no extreme compression of powder needed.
Will do heavier slugs and
RMC brass cases. Ed

[hubel458]

Tested 730g with 7383. Perfect ignition.Extracts easy.
130gr gives 1650 plus fps in 3" plastic.
Tested 800g slug with 7383 in plastic.Works good.
Have question about different cases and dies.
The RMC cases use a shotgun primer, thus they have
a real thick base. They are not a thin headed,
balloon headed case, and RMC makes sides thick
enough for regular 12ga wads.
But in a break action the 3" plastic cases
with our 4759, VV110, 7383 loads are close to RMC in
power. Can buy a hundred plastic for price of one RMC.
3.5" chamber 12ga with plastic is as good as RMC for 3"
And if I shot RMC in Savage to get more power,
which I could do as far as the firing process,
the expansion above the base, due to being a turned case
would make extraction stiff, causing extractor to
damage rim. A turned rim will not take what
a drawn one will. Rcbs set should do RMC easy.Ed

[coyotebandit]

I have a NEF 10 ga......

[hubel458]

Bandit- Do you load slugs for it? I think slug loads
with 7383, VV110, 4759 would do with some
experimenting. There isn't a huge variety of slugs
around for 10ga, but maybe lee has a mold.Ed

[hubel458]

Tested 870gr hard slug with 7383 in 3"
plastic. Over 1500 fps in NEF short barrel.
I wish it had a longer 32" barrel..........
The folks at 50 Cal suggested we write up a
piece on the 12GA FH. Interested in what we
did to make hairy cartridge using 50 cal brass
adapted to the 12 gauge shotgun platform.
A job for Rob to do? His wild idea has been
viewed about 400,000 times in the forums
we put it in.Ed

[hubel458]

Found another powder that works with small
primers in plastic and RMC cases, w/600gr slug.
It is IMR 4227. Ignition perfect, same load
levels and velocities as 4759.

Powders slower than shotgun type, that ignite
properly with small primers(shotgun-lg rifle);
we found 4759, VV-110, 4227, 7383 surplus,
the latter a slow powder that also works
with real heavy slugs Ed

[hubel458]

Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load.
870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could
be put in REM plastic and keep length to what
would feed from magazine of a 3" gun,
after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress.
1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50%
heavier than factory Buckhammer at little
faster speed and at little less pressure.
Ignition perfect, cases fall out.
Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed

[hubel458]

Finally able to make the
longer barrel improvement on
the 1887 12ga levergun.......
Rifled and heavy and 31"
long. After many months finally got
a barrel.Ed

[Orygun]

Impressive. Most Impressive. I Forget dead coyote, I'm thinking this is Coyote Mist.

[hubel458]

With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps,
with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600.
Expansion on cases show little more pressure
as full loads of 4759 and 600gr.
Ignition perfect with small primers.
Ejects cases fine. Burns clean.
Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier
rifled barrel on to test. Ed

[Skylinehnc]

Holly smokes Hubel................you are on absolutely every forum I have ever looked at!! How do you find the time? I just kind of bop around from here to there looking on the internet when I have time. Most I go away from....but I always see you there. Do you have a part time helper........lol?

[hubel458]

I get to each forum about every 4-7 days, I can post
a similiar message on all in couple hours,
when we have info or something of interest.
I try to get 1-2 hours a day on the gun
and load testing experiments. Like today checked
on 4227 loads with 870 gr slugs. Yesterday worked on
details for putting heavy barrel on Mossberg bolt shotgun.
Day before worked a little on the falling block model.
I need to be filthy rich and hire a couple smiths.Ed

[hubel458]

Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF
with extra hammer spring for big primer.
Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case.
Would do little more, extractor needs
to be wider and set up positive.
Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro.
Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc.
That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to
2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go
light or heavy.Ed

[BelchFire]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hubel458 @ Jul 8 2007, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed[/b]

I&#39;ll bet you do! But given the case capacity, you&#39;re gonna use a 1/2 pound at the time! That thing is just massive; that&#39;s the only way I know how to describe it.

[hubel458]

More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in
3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227.
I did the same. This compares to much lighter
REM Buckhammer slug, we have more speed. Almost all
the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards.
I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge
to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87.
Will be checking Mossy 395
for a guy who wants to put on
a heavy barrel.Here is pic of 695 bolt action
Mossberg with dinky barrel and the heavy long
rifled barrel for it. Ed

[hubel458]

Tested in NEF 3&#39; cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when
case cooled there was majority of misfires
and squib loads. Don&#39;t reccomend it..
Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action
GEHA next to a heavy barrel like I will put
on it Make a good slug gun. It has the thinnest
barrel of any 12ga I ever seen.Ed

[AMMOe]

I am curious. That Model 1897 Winchester: Have you shot it? I&#39;m asking because if it is truly a Model 1897 (and not a 1901) then it might not suit your needs as Winchester discontinued it in favor of the 1901 with the advent of smokeless loads.~AMMOe

[hubel458]

Mine is 87 Win 12ga levergun replica made with modern alloy steel.
It will handle our beefed up slug loads with heavy barrel.Ed

[AMMOe]

Good. I wouldn&#39;t want you to shoot your eye out.~AMMOe

[hubel458]

The 12GA From Hell, 700HE, and
700HE 3.25" is now on
Ammoguide, the last page of
cartridge list.Recent news says
H&H is going to build Paradox
Shotgun/Rifles again...Ed

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611

[hubel458]

We tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small
primers. My chamber is lengthened for our
long brass case, so they work fine.....
With 600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227,
got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus,
got 2100 fps. That&#39;s 5800 ft lbs from
plastic shotgun cases.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG
size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt
handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs
still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown
Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98
Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for
my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun.
Loads up to 825 gr at 2500. Ed