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Thread: Is Alum Safe?

  1. #1
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    Here lately, I've been trying to break my young 'un from saying certain words, expressions, etc... (Unfortunately, he's picked up a few choice words from his old man!) No, there are no words that most folks would consider profane, but even mild utterings can sound pretty bad coming from a three-year old. I don't use profanity (unless unusually provoked!), but I have used some generic words and expressions that I'd rather my little boy not use, at least at this young of an age.

    Sure, it's funny the first or second time you hear your little tot exclaim "Oh crap!" as he knocks a flower plant over or rolls his eyes and says "Oh God!" when he drops a spoon full of mashed potatoes on to the floor, but then you realize that little tongue needs to learn restraint and quickly so.

    Which brings me to my question. Lately, my wife and I have been giving him a dose of alum to curb his appetite for saying things we'd rather he didn't. However, I've been wondering if there are any harmful effects of using alum in this manner. I've heard of parents using this deterrent for years, but I've never considered the side effects of it until now. Is it harmful in any way to use as a method of disciplinary action?

    I've searched the net, but haven't found anything explicit. I did find this one site, http://www.perigee.net/~jrjohns/aluma.html, but that's about it. I just want to make sure I'm not harming my little Stetson. By the way, I have stopped using those same expressions and words around him, and I'm trying to stop altogether.

    On a side note, if you happened to click on that link above, what's the deal with that line about NOT using alum as a prophylactic?
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
    5. Only apply alum when needed. Do not use it as a prophylactic. Use only enough to do the job.[/b]
    I bet whoever tried that had it rough!
    Thank you for reading my post!

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    Welby, just threaten the little guy with a mouthful of lima beans. It would straighten me up real quick.

    That&#39;s too funny about the tators. From the mouths of babes.

    Not sure about the alum. I just remember it from the 3 stooges when they put it in a meal and served it.
    Jeff "Jesse" James - Owner of Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors

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    I tell you, Jesse, it&#39;s darn hilarious (there I go again!) listening to what this little guy comes up with sometimes. All those forum threads and television shows about the things kids say (and do) can&#39;t even begin to compare to the live show.

    One night as we sat at the dinner table, Stetson, who was two at the time, stopped eating and began playing with his food. My wife told him to finish eating. He replied "I don&#39; wan&#39; it!"

    Mrs. Welby shoots back, "Well, that&#39;s too bad because you&#39;re gonna eat it."

    The little guy, not willing to lose his ground, repeats "I don&#39; wan&#39; it!"

    Mrs. Welby, looking to gain some ground, comes back with "Stetson, if you don&#39;t eat it right now, you&#39;re going to get spanked!"

    Then, in an unexpected move, Stetson puffed his chest up and said "Well, I not scared!" Bring it on, Mommy!

    Mrs. Welby, who was a little taken aback, composes herself and gives him an order: "Boy, you better hush!"

    Stetson apparently misunderstood what she said and thought she had called him a horse. He quickly responded "A horse?? Mommy, I not a horse...!!"

    By this time, I had to leave the table...I couldn&#39;t hold it in any longer.

    Score: Stetson 3, Wife 2

    Those two go back and forth all the time. They are tit for tat, and I don&#39;t know yet who is the most stubborn.
    Thank you for reading my post!

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    Welby,

    Don&#39;t do that!! Set example by not letting him hear profanity or slang terms in the first place. Don&#39;t discipline by force feeding anything. This treads on abuse for sure. You may get into trouble with Child Protective doing this if not scar the kid forever mentally. Two wrongs don&#39;t make a right. That also applies to spanking and hitting or loud verbal abuse too. I believe the corporal punishment has its uses at some ages to prevent injury only and that is about it. I know some will take issue with that but fact is most people spank or do these things in the moment only cause they know not what to do and that is all they know how to do out of their own inability to really discipline and parent. Is a poor excuse really. I am not saying your a bad person but just that your making bad choices. Maybe get some parenting books or take part in some local family counseling to learn some good methods. The Nanny show on the tele can even help!
    Alum might be fine, I don&#39;t know. But that is not really the point..

    Isn&#39;t alum used to make leather? IT WILL TOUGHEN HIM UP A BIT AT FIRST BUT THEN IT WILL TAKE THE REST OF HIS LIFE TO SOFTEN UP TO OTHERS. :hitting-self:

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    I ain&#39;t real sure Dr. Spock gots all the answers. Dr. Welby may know best.
    Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine


    I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS

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    Wello.. You have any kids??? Just wondering????

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    oh well...o

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    Despite Wello&#39;s opinion, teaching a child to respect his elders and follow instruction, often involves a form of corporal punishment. And personally, my neighbors who refrain from corporal punishment have more behavioral problems with their children than I do mine. Certainly, you do not want to go "overboard" with the method of correction, and never make the words or actions habit.
    "The whiskey never lies."
    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
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    Dr. Marcus Welby. Almost forgot all about that show..

    Tim,

    Yes, 3 of various ages. I was the youngest of 6 and have seen the good and the bad..
    I&#39;ll stick with what I said even if I don&#39;t get a single collaborating opinion. I suspect many will not want to touch this one..

    Marty,

    Involvement doesn&#39;t make something right and respect is not truly gained from this what is being discussed. It is gained from a consistent trustful display of character and integrity be it parental situation or a peer situation.

    Everyone about to yell or strike a child just know your looking for your own way out of a situation you can&#39;t tolerate and have no answer for. Basic definition is yer a weakling, at least in that moment....
    Your character is measured when no one is watching.

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    Wello is right about "yelling", bad for children.

    Teddy Roosevelt was right too: "Speak softly, but carry a big stick"

    My children were spanked a very few times, but they knew what would happen if they didn&#39;t listen. Unless they were crossing a street without looking (or some safety issue), I wasn&#39;t a yeller.
    Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine


    I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS

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    Wello.. I just wanted to make sure you had some experience with kids before you posted all of that crap. I have met too many people that dont have any but want to tell me exactly how to raise mine!

    As far as your comments are concerned, I dont really know what to say except that you have some big balls telling a man he is wrong in the way he is raising his kids. How about you raise yours the way you want to and I will raise mine the way that I want to. I wont tell you that you are wrong and I expect the same from you...

    Now, can someone please answer the original question without telling Welby what a bad guy he is for punishing his own son???

    Unbelievable!

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    I have a hunting buddy that is a pharmacist. I will ask him his opinion and then post up his reply for you Welby.

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    I dont know the answer to the alum question, but when you find it can I use it on an 18 year old????


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    Tea made from the Alum root was used quite often years ago, here in the Appalachians. They used it mainly to treat diarrhea. It is also used as a gargle for sore throats. I can remember my Granny making me drink it when I had the Mumps too ... nasty stuff! You can make a poultice from the ground up roots, and use it on cuts & sores to help speed the healing.


    Jerry Clower (Southern Comedian) once said it would cure baldness. He said to take a pint of Alum juice, and a pint of Persimmon Juice, and massage it into the scalp 3 times daily.

    When asked if it would actually grow hair on top of your head, he replied ... "Naw, but it&#39;ll draw your sideburns up on top of your head!"

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    STOP GIVING ALUMINUM! You can seriously damage your child. Here is link I found on this.

    link

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    Is alum & aluminum the same thing??????
    Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine


    I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS

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    I did some google research, alum is aluminum sulfate.

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    Sorry, I thought you had just shortened for aluminum. No they are not the same thing.

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    bowhunter104.. Surely you did not think he was shoving aluminum down the kids throat!!! That is funny!!!

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    bowhunter104
    your avitar bothers me

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    What bothers you about it Duckwidow? Yeah I had a major brain fart there, boy do I feel stupid.

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    just trying to figure out what that jittery little thang is

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    Its a fly from Joe Cartoon. Check out his site if you like crude humor.

    cartoons

  24. #24
    glgst is offline Member Allowed To Sit On The 1st Rung glgst
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    DuckWidow,
    the avatar in question appears to be a fruit fly dancing like Elane from Seinfeld...just without thumbs
    -------------glgst---------------

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    Not good Welby --

    Summary of the following MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Alum --

    1) OSHA Hazard Communication Standard:This product is considered hazardous under the OSHA HazardCommunication Standard.3


    2) POTENTIAL HEALTH HAZARDS

    SKIN:May cause skin irritation, especially under repeated or prolonged contact, or when moisture is present.EYES: May irritate or burn the eyes. Similarly for the aqueous solution.

    INHALATIONust or mist inhalation at levels above the TLV may cause irritation to the respiratory tract.

    INGESTION:May irritate the gastrointestinal tract.

    DELAYED EFFECTS: None known.Ingredients found on one of the three OSHA designated carcinogen lists are listed below

    3) FIRST AID MEASURES
    SKIN:Flush with plenty of soap water, removing contaminated clothing. If irritation develops, get medical attention.

    EYES: Immediately flush with water, continuing for at least 15 minutes. If irritation persists, get medical attention.

    INHALATION:Promptly remove to fresh air.

    INGESTION:If conscious, immediately give large quantity of water or milk. If not already vomiting, inducevomiting by touching finger to back of throat. Get medical assistance.

    4) HANDLING AND STORAGE NORMAL HANDLING: (See section 8 for recommended personal protective equipment.)Avoid contact with skin, eyes and clothing. Do not breathe product dusts or mists.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 1
    AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 1 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 2001Material Safety Data Sheet1. PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATIONPRODUCT NAME: AlumOTHER/GENERIC NAMES:Aluminum SulfatePRODUCT USE:Water treatment. Various industrial uses.MANUFACTURER:General Chemical Corporation90 East Halsey RoadParsippany, NJ 07054FOR MORE INFORMATION CALLMonday-Friday, 9:00am-4:30pm)973-515-1840IN CASE OF EMERGENCY CALL24 Hours/Day, 7 Days/Week)800-631-80502. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTSINGREDIENT NAMECAS NUMBERWEIGHT %Aluminum sulfate10043-01-3(anhydrous)100Trace impurities and additional material names not listed above may also appear in Section 15 towards the end of theMSDS. These materials may be listed for local "Right-To-Know" compliance and for other reasons.OSHA Hazard Communication Standard:This product is considered hazardous under the OSHA HazardCommunication Standard.3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATIONEMERGENCY OVERVIEW: White or creamy white granules or powder with no odor.Can irritate the skin and eyes. Not flammable, but may release toxic vapors ifdecomposed in a fire.POTENTIAL HEALTH HAZARDSSKIN:May cause skin irritation, especially under repeated or prolonged contact, or when moisture is present.EYES: May irritate or burn the eyes. Similarly for the aqueous solution.INHALATIONust or mist inhalation at levels above the TLV may cause irritation to the respiratory tract.INGESTION:May irritate the gastrointestinal tract.DELAYED EFFECTS: None known.Ingredients found on one of the three OSHA designated carcinogen lists are listed below.INGREDIENT NAMENTP STATUSIARC STATUSOSHA LISTNo ingredients listed in this section.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 2
    MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETDry AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 2 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 20014. FIRST AID MEASURESSKIN:Flush with plenty of soap water, removing contaminated clothing. If irritation develops, get medical attention.EYES: Immediately flush with water, continuing for at least 15 minutes. If irritation persists, get medical attention.INHALATION:Promptly remove to fresh air.INGESTION:If conscious, immediately give large quantity of water or milk. If not already vomiting, inducevomiting by touching finger to back of throat. Get medical assistance.ADVICE TO PHYSICIAN:Treat symptomatically.5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURESFLAMMABLE PROPERTIESFLASH POINT:Not flammableFLASH POINT METHOD:Not applicableAUTOIGNITION TEMPERATURE:Not applicableUPPER FLAME LIMIT (volume % in air):Not applicableLOWER FLAME LIMIT (volume % in air):Not applicableFLAME PROPAGATION RATE (solids):Not applicableOSHA FLAMMABILITY CLASS:Not applicableEXTINGUISHING MEDIA:Product is not flammable. Use any extinguishing agent suitable for surrounding fire.UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS:None.SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PRECAUTIONS/INSTRUCTIONS:Use self-contained breathing apparatus.6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURESIN CASE OF SPILL OR OTHER RELEASE: (See section 8 for recommended personal protective equipment.)Shovel up dry chemical and place in empty container and cover. Spray residue with plenty of water. Neutralize anyfurther residue with alkali such as soda ash, lime or limestone. Adequate ventilation is required if soda ash orlimestone is used, because of the consequent release of carbon dioxide gas. Collect liquid and/or residue anddispose of in accordance with applicable regulations.Spills and releases may have to be reported to Federal and/or local authorities. See Section 15 regardingreporting requirements.7. HANDLING AND STORAGENORMAL HANDLING: (See section 8 for recommended personal protective equipment.)Avoid contact with skin, eyes and clothing. Do not breathe product dusts or mists.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 3
    MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETDry AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 3 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 2001STORAGE RECOMMENDATIONS:Store in a cool, dry area.8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTIONENGINEERING CONTROLS:Use local exhaust if dusty or misty conditions prevails.PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENTSKIN PROTECTION:Wear gloves and appropriate industrial work clothing including long sleeved shirtsand trousers for routine product handling. Full impervious clothing is recommendedif handling solutions and there is repeated or prolonged contact.EYE PROTECTION:Wear chemical safety goggles. Do not wear contact lenses.RESPIRATORYPROTECTION:A NIOSH approved dust or mist respirator should be worn in areas where productdusts or mists are present.ADDITIONALRECOMMENDATIONS:The presence of an eyewash and safety shower is recommended.EXPOSURE GUIDELINESINGREDIENT NAMEACGIH TLVOSHA PELOTHER LIMITAluminum sulfate (as Aluminum)2 mg/m32 mg/m3None1 = Limit established by General Chemical Corporation.2 = Workplace Environmental Exposure Level (AIHA).3 = Biological Exposure Index (ACGIH).OTHER EXPOSURE LIMITS FOR POTENTIAL DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS:None9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIESAPPEARANCE:White or creamy white granules or powder.PHYSICAL STATE:SolidMOLECULAR WEIGHT:594 for Al2(SO4)314H2OCHEMICAL FORMULA:Al2(SO4)314H2OODOR:OdorlessSPECIFIC GRAVITY (water = 1.0):1.61SOLUBILITY IN WATER (weight %):50% at 0CpH:3.5 (1% solution)BOILING POINT:Not applicableMELTING POINT:Not applicable
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 4
    MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETDry AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 4 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 2001VAPOR PRESSURE:NegligibleVAPOR DENSITY (air = 1.0):Not applicableEVAPORATION RATE:Not applicableCOMPARED TO: Not applicable.% VOLATILES:Not applicableFLASH POINT:Not flammable(Flash point method and additional flammability data are found in Section 5.)10.STABILITY AND REACTIVITYNORMALLY STABLE? (CONDITIONS TO AVOID):Normally stable. Avoid temperatures above 760C, as this will yield toxic and corrosive gases.INCOMPATIBILITIES:Alkalis and water reactive materials such as oleum: causes exothermic reactions.HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS:At elevated temperatures, sulfur oxides may be formed. These are toxic and corrosive and are oxidizers. Sulfurtrioxide is also a fire hazard. The loss of these gases leaves a caustic residue.HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION:Will not occur11.TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATIONIMMEDIATE (ACUTE) EFFECTS:Aluminum sulfate:LD50(oral, mouse): 6207 mg/kgLD50(oral, rat): 1930 mg/kgDELAYED (SUBCHRONIC AND CHRONIC) EFFECTSata not availableOTHER DATA:None12.ECOLOGICAL INFORMATIONAluminum sulfate:14 ppm/36 hr/ fundulus/fatal/fresh water.240 ppm/48 hr/mosquito fish/TLm/water type not specified.TLmMosquito fish, 235 ppm, 96 hoursLC50Largemouth bass, 250 ppm, 96 hours
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 5
    MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETDry AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 5 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 200113.DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONSRCRAIs the unused product a RCRA hazardouswaste if discarded? NoIf yes, the RCRA ID number is: Not applicableOTHER DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS:If permitted by regulations, material may be dissolved in water and neutralized with alkali. Neutralized waste mayhave to be disposed of by an approved contractor.The information offered in section 13 is for the product as shipped. Use and/or alterations to the product such asmixing with other materials may significantly change the characteristics of the material and alter the RCRAclassification and the proper disposal method.14.TRANSPORT INFORMATIONUS DOT HAZARD CLASS:9 (only if greater than 8700 lbs. in one package)US DOT ID NUMBER:UN3077PROPER SHIPPING NAME:Environmentally hazardous substances, solid, n.o.s. (contains aluminum sulfate)For additional information on shipping regulations affecting this material, contact the information number found inSection 1.15.REGULATORY INFORMATIONTOXIC SUBSTANCES CONTROL ACT (TSCA)TSCA INVENTORY STATUS:All ingredients listed on the TSCA InventoryOTHER TSCA ISSUES:NoneSARA TITLE III/CERCLA"Reportable Quantities" (RQs) and/or "Threshold Planning Quantities" (TPQs) exist for the following ingredients.INGREDIENT NAMESARA/CERCLA RQ (lb)SARA EHS TPQ (lb)Aluminum sulfate (anhydrous)5000(*as is 8700 lbs.)NoneSpills or releases resulting in the loss of any ingredient at or above its RQ requires immediate notificationto the National Response Center [(800) 424-8802] and to your Local Emergency Planning Committee.SECTION 311 HAZARD CLASS:ImmediateSARA 313 TOXIC CHEMICALS:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Page 6
    MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETDry AlumMSDS Number: GC-2001Page 6 of 6Current Issue Date:June, 2001The following ingredients are SARA 313 "Toxic Chemicals" and may be subject to annual reporting requirements.CAS numbers and weight percents are found in Section 2.INGREDIENT NAMECOMMENTNo ingredients listed in this section.STATE RIGHT-TO-KNOWIn addition to the ingredients found in Section 2, the following are listed for state right-to-know purposes.INGREDIENT NAMEWEIGHT %COMMENTNo ingredients listed in this section.ADDITIONAL REGULATORY INFORMATION:None listedWHMIS CLASSIFICATION (CANADA):Class D2B.Classified in accordance with WHMIS Controlled Product regulations.FOREIGN CHEMICAL CONTROL INVENTORY STATUS:All ingredients listed on Canadian DSL.16.OTHER INFORMATIONCURRENT ISSUE DATE:June, 2001PREVIOUS ISSUE DATEecember, 1993CHANGES TO MSDS FROM PREVIOUS ISSUE DATE ARE DUE TO THE FOLLOWING:Updated to ANSI format.OTHER INFORMATION:None
    --PHOnos

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this nonsense, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    " Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

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    I never said alum was good to give just that I mistook it for aluminumwhich I know is bad.

    Just wash his mouth out with soap; but don&#39;t use Life Boy it causes soap poisoning. He could go blind.

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    Here&#39;s the response from my friend, and fellow waterfowl hunter:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
    In regards to your alum question. The oral ingestion
    is really not a problem.### The first recorded
    non-pharmacologic oral use of the compound was with the
    Three stooges.### In between eye pokings, and or head
    butts, a few grams of alum would be stuffed into one
    of the three&#39;s unsuspecting oral cavity. The chemical
    was used in dentistry quite frequently at the turn of
    the century.### So not to worry, your Camp-Fire friend&#39;s
    kid will be just fine.[/b]

  28. #28
    Brad is offline Moderator Knows The Secret Handshake Brad
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    Stop poisoning the kid and wack him in the ass! Kids arn&#39;t stupid! after they find out that it hurts they usually avoid anything that brings on pain! Don&#39;t shelter your kids from the world ! &#39;cause when they finally get out there ( school, playing with other kids, sports etc) you will really have a mixed up kid! Let them grow up! The best way to learn is trial and error. Most of all is to enjoy them!! they grow up fast.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
    When asked if it would actually grow hair on top of your head, he replied ... "Naw, but it&#39;ll draw your sideburns up on top of your head!"[/b]
    Jeff "Jesse" James - Owner of Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors

    You can always tell who's in 2nd place by who's whining and crying the most. - Old hockey coach.

    Dum spiramus tuebimur

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    my grandma gave us castor oil

    But then again, my grandma used to make her own cough syrup...
    lemon juice, honey and a shot of wiskey...

    whenever we went over there we would all suddenly come down with terrible coughs!!!

    maybe an old fashioned cure is not the answer...

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