Advice, buying a new rifle

**BDB** · 07-02-2003, 05:47 PM

I have been thinking of picking up a new rifle. Don't really need it but I'm in the buying mood this week (just bought my Ruger Redhawk stainless in .44mag with a 5.5" barrel today).

I have been interested in the Ruger M77 Mark II, synthetic in 30-06 for some time now. I am also looking at the Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic in 30-06.

Since I have never owned either one I'm not sure which one to pick. Anyone have any major swaying points good or bad about either gun???

Thanks,

**pschultheis** · 07-02-2003, 05:59 PM

BDB,

I would look into the Howa 30-06. I do not own one but will be buying a 300 Win Mag soon. The Howa from what I know is about the same thing as the Vangaurd but less expensive. I have heard nothing but fantastic things about them and can't wait to get mine. I believe that Howa made or makes the Vangaurds. Just something to think about.

I own an M77 in .270 Win. Great gun once you work through the trigger. I guess that is the case with most guns these days.

Let us know what you decide,

Paul

**pschultheis** · 07-02-2003, 06:06 PM

And check this out. I have not bought a gun online yet but I think I may have to. Look at these prices, even with shipping they are good. The 300 Win I want with the wood and blu is only $344

Thegunsource

**Hook** · 07-02-2003, 07:40 PM

BDB,

If you are looking for a good rifle in 30-06 take alook at the Howa 1500, they are the same as the Vanguards.
Turners here in So. Cal are having a sale for 399.99 for the rifle and the scope.

The Rugers are great rifle too, plus they have more after market products for them, such as Timney Triggers and stocks.

You can't go wrong with either rifle, and the 30-06 is a very versitle round.

**Hook** · 07-02-2003, 07:43 PM

Dang!

Just as I posted the above... I took a look at Turners and saw this Remington 30-06 Camo !

**T F Coyote** · 07-02-2003, 10:15 PM

I used to own a Vanguard in 30-06. I bought it used from the Weatherby store before they moved out of Southgate. It cost me $300 in 1991, and I never had a problem with it.

The only reason I sold it, was that as a lefty, I never learned to operate the right-handed bolt quickly enough.

**SDHNTR** · 07-03-2003, 07:15 AM

I do agree with one element of the last several posts. Buy the Howa over the Vanguard. It is the same rifle action and cheaper. But between the two you mentioned, the Ruger is a better gun. Look at both and I think you will agree. Rugers are well made here in the USA. They are also overbuilt and are extrememly strong. They are a controlled round feed action that will never jam. It also has a large extractor that will yank any sticky cases. Yes you will want to replace the trigger with a Timney or the like but even after figuring this cost, they are still a good value. You can probably find the rifle you are looking for on www.gunbroker.com for a great deal less than a shop. And buying out of state will save you the sales tax. Both are good guns for the buck, but Ruger gets the nod in craftmanship. They will also stand strong behing thier product.

**MarinePMI** · 07-03-2003, 07:26 AM

I tend to disagree with the statement that Ruger is a better product. The design may be better (and that is up to a great deal of debate) but historically Ruger hasn't been able to make a barrel to save their lives (hence most are contracted out, even with their relatively new hammer forged barrel plant). I have a Howa, and had another I ended up building up for a friend. Both were tack drivers, period.

Howa's come with an adjustable trigger, Ruger's don't.

I guess it boils down to pay for name, or pay for product. I'll pay for a lesser known, well made product before I pay just on the basis of name brand.

This is meant as no slight to SDHNTR, I'm sure he has his reasons for his opinion. This is just my two centavos worth....

**AMMOe** · 07-03-2003, 08:06 AM

If the "... Proof of the pudding is in the Tasting", then surely the proof of a good rifle is it's ability to shoot accurately. Ruger's rifles are beautiful but they have always been somewhat lacking in the accuracy dept. I have rebarreled a handful of them and eliminated that front guard screw arrangement. ( an idea that should have worked but didn't) I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Howa with regards to strength and reliability. I like buying American but if you want to sell me a knife, make it a sharp one; If you want to sell me a rifle, make it accurate. I have more rifles than I can recall off the top of my head but I do know that a highly modified, custom single shot and a 10/22 are the only Rugers. ~Andy

**SDHNTR** · 07-03-2003, 08:18 AM

No slight taken, MarinePMI. I just love my Ruger .243. It drives tacks. I have also had a Ruger Red Label and a Redhawk. All were fine weapons. My experiences with the Howa were with an older Vanguard and an older Smith and Wesson 1500. Both shot OK, as well as most production rifles, but niether had quite the fit and finish of a Ruger. Everone knows the rifle guys sure have their opinions. I like Fords, you probably like Chevys.

**BDB** · 07-03-2003, 08:19 AM

Thanks for all the responses guys. Maybe I'll check around a little more before dropping down the cash.

**JDC** · 07-03-2003, 08:22 AM

How accurate does accurate need to be?

Is the buyers intent to go out and shoot competition? If so, almost all production rifles will need a lot of work including re-barreling. Basically, buy any strong action, and build a gun from there.

Is the buyers intent to hunt with the rifle? What does he intend to hunt? Obviously with the choice of an 06 he's probably intending to limiting his shots to well under 300yds. I would think he's also preferring big game. So if he can keep his shots in a 5" circle at 300yds isn't that accurate enough?

I think most factory rifles will shoot 5" circles pretty easy with the right ammo and plenty of practice.

Maybe I'm way off base..

**MarinePMI** · 07-03-2003, 08:47 AM

SDHNTR,

Ain't that the truth! (BTW, I do like Chevys!

)

JDC,

How accurate? Remember those grounds squirrels? That accurate!

If I miss a shot on a critter with just 3/4" of his head showing, I want to know it was me, not the weapon.

Hope to see you out this weekend!

**JungleBoy** · 07-03-2003, 08:47 AM

I have a Vanguard in 300 Weatherby. It's 'pretty' accurate with most handloads. That is, it will shoot a consistent 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, but that's about it. Over the past 5 years I have tried tons of loads/components, and.... never shot less than a VERY occasional 1 inch group. So 1.5 inch groups is where this rifle is at. More than ample accuracy for hunting.

About 4 years ago, I bought a Savage Striker Handgun in 308 Win, for the sole purpose of hunting back country pigs, as carrying a big pistol is a LOT easier than hauling a rifle around, up and down steep hills and thick brush.

I was EXTREMELY surprized, and very pleased to have been able to shoot a 0.75 inch 3 shot 100 yard group the VERY FIRST TIME OUT, out of the box, while sighting in. With some load development, I shoots a 0.3 inch group consistently, and I am 100% convinced that MY shooting abilities are what is limiting the accuracy on this gun! Keep in mind, that it this is out of a pistol, with a 15 inch barrel!!!!

So, you have accuracy, and then you have ACCURACY!

This gives the shooter a lot of confidence.... I like to practice, breaking clay pigoens out to 300 yards. I can nail them every time.

**BDB** · 07-03-2003, 08:59 AM

My current rifle is around 1" or slightly less with a good load at 100 yards. I would want a rifle that is capable of 1" groups at 100 yards pretty much right out of the box. I am not that interested in .5" groups or less. I target shoot for fun and practice and I plan to hunt blacktail, mulies, pigs and elk with it. All shots under 300 yards.

**JDC** · 07-03-2003, 09:02 AM

MPMI-

those aren't squirrels. They are mice with fuzzy tails!!

**Speckmisser** · 07-03-2003, 09:48 AM

BDB,

Never one to let something drop... check out the Savage 110!

Actually, if I were shopping seriously right now, I might be looking real hard at the Tikka rifles.

But for value and accuracy, I don't think the Savage can be touched (although that HOWA at $399 sounds good too).

**woodseye** · 07-03-2003, 09:51 AM

I know you didn't have this in your choices but have you considered a Savage?It should shoot an inch or less out of the box with adjustable trigger and reasonable price.Just a thought.

woods

**Brian S** · 07-03-2003, 10:08 AM

Check the second page in the "Tradin post" here fpscab is selling a Ruger Mark II in .270 and a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06 that he won in some banquet dinners.
Brian

**tnctcb** · 07-03-2003, 08:05 PM

i would assume you arent shooting squirrels with a 30-06 or shooting competition so i would say either will do the job. i have 2 rugers and a weatherby vanguard. all shoot groups that satisfy me but the rugers feel like the stronger rifle. when i bought the weatherby i really wanted a browning so i bought that in the same caliber a few days later ( buyers remorse). the weatherby is now waitng for one of my boys to grow and the rugers see the woods alot. in fact i would trade the weatherby for a ruger in a heartbeat.

**Brad** · 07-06-2003, 06:10 AM

Was wondering when someone was going to bring up the Savage 110. Got one in .270 about 2 years ago and for the $$ you can't beat it .

**BDB** · 08-25-2003, 06:10 PM

After reading everyone's replys and then heading to traders to look at all of the choices I finally made one. Is it just me or are some of the guys at traders real a$$'s.

Anyway, I ordered (not from traders) the Howa 1500 synthetic in 30-06. I like the action much better than the others that were in the "lower price range". Won't get it for 3 weeks while I wait for it to get to the dealer and then a 10 day wait. I thought that was only for handguns in CA???

Thanks for all of the advice guys. Hopefully it will shoot well since I am having a hell of a time getting my normally solid rifle to group anything below 5" consistently. This gun used to shoot 3/4" with certain ammo and 1.5 consistently with Federal factory ammo. It's driving my nuts right now

But at least a bad Sunday at the range resulted in a new toy right??