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Thread: Range War? BLM/Feds Pushing Nevada Rancher Bundy

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    Default Range War? BLM/Feds Pushing Nevada Rancher Bundy

    He said he has a land easement and his family has been on the land running cattle since the late 1800s before the BLM existed.
    He has lost two Fed court cases.
    Apparently it's desert tortoise habitat, however Sen. Maj. Leader Harry Reed had habitat area moved for developer friend.
    He is not paying grazing fees, but he had in the past.
    Film of sharp shooters on surrounding hills as over watch.
    They arrested Bundys son on a bogus charge doing some filming of the BLM.
    Oathkeepers are involved asking the public to come on out but leave your guns in the car. Letting folks camp on the land.
    The Feds have relocated/stolen his cattle. Some sources say killed.

    WHAT SAY YOU? Another Ruby Ridge or Waco? I think water rights are a big part of it. He is the last rancher in the area.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ion-escalates/
    Last edited by quaildeath; 04-11-2014 at 10:49 AM.
    "There is something about those bleeding chickens that makes a man want to grab his shotgun." - Edward Abbey

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    Was just reading about this, and of course it's not all over the mainstream media, but should be. Its a screwed up deal.
    Poachers Suck

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    Default God Bless America

    America the land of the free & just
    donations needed for people there. help the fight.
    water, food, supplies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYHqsfF-j0#t=365

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    It's been in print news for a week or so now. Supposedly the story is they closed the area he's using for desert tortoise habitat restoration about a decade ago, he stopped paying trespass fees a decade before that. During all the court cases and whatnot he supposedly threatened violence should the feds come and try to remove his cattle. Blm response seems way over the top, but so does calling for a militia citing the second amendment to defend someone who is basically calling squatters rights on a very large tract of public land.
    If being there since the 1880s gives people the right to land, does that mean I, being native and having relatives on the mayflower, can set up a farm on any tract of public land I please?
    Harry Reed playing favorites before doesn't mean it should be done again, unless you think it was the right thing to be done the first time.

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    The guys family and him been farming there since the 1800's? Roughly 150 -200 years , think about it , thats a long freaking time . In my opinion , good lord he has to have the rights to some piece of that land.


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    Road trip. So BLM set up a first amendment zone that alone is enough to piss you off.
    Like Woody Guthrie song (This land is your land This land is my land) great words but this land is there land know.
    ( Trying like hell to live the dream)
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    Default god bless America

    God bless America

    In his defense the Bundy Family has been there for three centuries. they have grandfather grazing rights. the family was there before the BLM was created.
    The BLM real agenda is to forcibly remove the Bundys from their Ranch. the area (Public Land) is just that public land. Ranchers have always had grazing rights since the beginning.
    the is about UN agenda 21. kicking all American citizens off rural areas. the real reason the government wants this land for development of the water & resources.
    in other words strip mining, fracking, well drilling. using the water for these destructive uses. if we don't stand behind the Bundy Ranch expect this to be the norm all over America.

    I seen this happening in southern california where ranchers & farmers are forced off their respective land. by any means, such as taxes, new unconstitutional laws made by san diego county. such as noise abatement & on.


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    I would think they have the land under the Homestead Act. It seems the most likely.

    Not trying to stir it up. I just want the information out there on Jesses.
    "There is something about those bleeding chickens that makes a man want to grab his shotgun." - Edward Abbey

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    This is not a simple situation, I have mixed feelings, first just because your cattle grazed on public land for a hundred years in my opinion does'nt give him any ownership or perpetual grazing rights, conversely, it appears that Harry Reid had the boundaries changed for developers, if this tortoise thing isn't a sham then old Harry's friends won't be able to develop or drill we'll see. I also have had many run ins over the years with ranchers who believed that because they had grazing rights on public property everyone else is excluded from trespassing . My mixed feelings continue with the private ranchers in San Diego county, while I hate government intrusion I find it difficult to be sympathetic to ranchers that own vast tracts of land and refuse to let anyone hunt and are extremely rude when you nicely ask for permission, one rancher in San ysabel (sp) asked me to sign a petition to stop SDGE from accessing his ranch, I said do you allow hunting on your ranch ? To which he replied I don't believe in hunting to which I replied, I don't believe in signing petitions, The Nevada rancher supposedly owes BLM one million dollars in back grazing fees yet they estimate their collection efforts will cost more than a million dollars, sounds like common core math.

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    Libtards have been using the endangered species crap to serve alternative motives for ages...this is no different and the son being caged for filming this injustice is BS!
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.


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    Libtards...this is why politics is broken. Approximately 44% of the cows being seized don't even belong to Mr Cliven Bundy, but the other ranchers using the land aren't being surrounded by federal agents. Just throwing that out there.

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    Both sides are really messy in their handling of this, and my understanding of the situation is sketchy. Bundy has lost every court case on this, no legal leg to stand on. The BLM has allowed this problem to go on for decades by not acting on something as simple as a rancher 'not' paying fees. Bundy use to pay fees, so he has a history of compliance, and stopped. Who's wrong?
    Saying his family has grazed for generations on that land seems to be a moot point, emotional, but moot. Public land then and now, not his private pasture. I have as much right to be there as he did, and more so than his cattle do, since he stopped paying his fees.
    Sorry pal, you either had a bad lawyer if they couldn't grandfather you in, or greased the wrong palm so you couldn't get a variance voted on.
    He said on the news, he'd pay his back fees to the county or state, just not the feds. Well, "you should have started doing that 20 or so years ago."
    The Feds. need to stop projecting themselves as Storm Troopers. Some of us (private citizens), aren't really intimidated by your bull$##t.
    This rancher needs to think back to, What did you think was going to happen? Just because you are there doesn't mean you're right.
    Gun Control is using Both Hands

    It's the right thing to do.............Geesh!!!

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    Very well written dblsmk!

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    Not sure who's right here, lots of conjectures, few documented facts. However, a few things are consistant in everything I've found;
    1. Water rights, water in this area are very valuable and not exactly wide spread.
    2. Oil, possible though only the right type of shale has been found, not oil deposits.
    3. Fees, paid then stopped, seems the original grazing rights were purchased from the gov. pre BLM, then after BLM was created, "fees"were required to pay for area restoration and rancher assistance (whatever that is), Bundy stopped paying when restoration and assistance changed to restrictions and removal of manmade water tanks.
    4. Tortoise, endangered, maybe but if you find one upside down and are caught turning it over you are in as much trouble as if you injured it. They built a fence around the California City tortoise are and killed more in 60 days than cars ran over in a year, so much for protection. Also the feds are continually reducing funds for them, so I think that they be an excuse not a reason.
    5. Land, seems good ole Harrys son is working with the Chinese to find remote land to buy for a solar energy site. Something to think about.

    As for the court orders, wouldn't be the first time a "federal" judge ruled for the feds in questionable situations. Same for the 2 court cases, maybe they should try it with a jury, see how that goes.

    Why is there a "free speech area"? And why did the FAA declare the entire area a "no fly" zone. Either they are hiding something or they are afraid their round up will be interrupted. I go with option A, hiding.

    Bundys daughter claims they have documents proving that her grandfather and other ranchers purchased the grazing rights to this area in 1889, and this was passed down to her father. In the mid 1990s the other ranchers were pressured out leaving Bundy as the lone hold out. He paid the grazing fees until the feds used them to destroy artificial water tanks then stopped. Supposedly he tried to pay Clark County but they refused to take it.

    Who's right? I don't know. But, how about this, EVERYONE step back, empanel an even number of juges, liberal and conservative plus a jury of his peers. Lay all the cards on the table, let the jury and the judges sort out fact from fantasy. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

    I know, I'm naive, the feds don't have to follow the rules...............yet.

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    Looks like the Feds left today after the the local sheriff made a deal. They'll be back.
    "There is something about those bleeding chickens that makes a man want to grab his shotgun." - Edward Abbey

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    This was on the evening national news tonight.

    Looks like the BLM is backing down for now -- they probably do not want another Ruby Ridge on their hands.

    It sounds like the issue is quite complex. Waiting to read a court trial brief on it someday soon to get all the facts straight.

    Fees are taxes, of a sort. And death and taxes are unavoidable by everyone in this day and age.

    Hopefully the unpaid fees/taxes won't lead to any deaths, in this case.
    Last edited by hks95134; 04-12-2014 at 10:20 PM.

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    Speaking of TAX.S did any body hear about some law they will try to pass in CA that says we got to pay tax,s that our parents did not pay wile they were alive ? WTH is that about ? that sounds scary.

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    The BLM consists of appointed lawmakers, such as czars, to enact and enforce laws they seem fitting. I've got my money on what's right, and it's certainly NOT the BLM! Appointed positions should not have the capacity to pass ANY laws imo, that's what happens in communist countries! I'm 100% for abolishing the BLM.

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwA...ature=youtu.be

    Very enlightening stuff right here!

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    Government at gun point. #WAKE UP MERICA
    ( Trying like hell to live the dream)
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    Looks like the backoff may be a ploy to get supporters to leave so the feds can raid Bundys home. And surprise, otraiterama is noticibly absent on the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant-hit-em View Post
    The guys family and him been farming there since the 1800's? Roughly 150 -200 years , think about it , thats a long freaking time . In my opinion , good lord he has to have the rights to some piece of that land.


    Tell that to the indians, I mean Native Americans.

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    I do not believe that my (or anyone else's) First Amendment rights are foregone on BLM land. We the people own it! What is going on in Amerika?

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.


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    So there was a real standoff......rifles pointed at one another.

    "As roughly 250 protesters and mounted cowboys approached the gates for the BLM compound the agents inside pointed rifles at them and warned them over loudspeakers to get back or they would be shot. Meanwhile, militia members and other armed citizens took up positions opposite the BLM personnel with their rifles trained on the feds.
    Now it was an honest to goodness standoff."

    Pretty good read. Cowboys riding up on the local hills with American Flags.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...dy-hasnt-sung/
    "There is something about those bleeding chickens that makes a man want to grab his shotgun." - Edward Abbey

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    Dingy harry says all the protesters should be arrested #WAKE UP MERICA
    ( Trying like hell to live the dream)
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    wow. that video is crazy. So silly that the government says they are helping protect the tortoise but yet they are going to kill a bunch of them due to lack of money. How dose that make any since?? Use the money from the cow roundup to save the tortoise if that is what they really want to do. Just shows that there is more to the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTKT70 View Post
    wow. that video is crazy. So silly that the government says they are helping protect the tortoise but yet they are going to kill a bunch of them due to lack of money. How dose that make any since?? Use the money from the cow roundup to save the tortoise if that is what they really want to do. Just shows that there is more to the story.
    To answer your question, if the tortoise population that was killed were the offspring of a very few breeders than the genetics may have been to homogenous to release into the wild population and could have a potentially devastating impact on the sound genetics of the wild population.


    That said, I don't think that this has a damn thing to do with tortoises. This has everything to do with a small group of very powerful people scamming the public out of their rights to use public property.
    Last edited by Plain ol' Steve; 04-15-2014 at 02:37 PM.

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    thank you for the answer. Still seems odd to me since they say they wanted to save them and help get the numbers up by releasing them back in to the wild. If they were never going to be good enough to let back in the wild, what was the whole point in the first place?

    Im with you on the fact that its not even about the tortoises. More about money and power. Same crap big brother is always up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTKT70 View Post
    thank you for the answer. Still seems odd to me since they say they wanted to save them and help get the numbers up by releasing them back in to the wild. If they were never going to be good enough to let back in the wild, what was the whole point in the first place?

    I'm with you on the fact that its not even about the tortoises. More about money and power. Same crap big brother is always up to.
    Well I put an if in there because I don't really know anything about it. I just know that that could be a justifiable reason. It could be that they were still working on developing a diverse enough brood stock and hadn't completed the goal before funding dried up. And of course it could be that we just have a bunch of boobs in government. I tend to fight having knee jerk reactions because often times it gets us distracted from the real issues which are often far worse than dead turtles.

    What upsets me more about this whole problem is the reminder how much we are all asleep at the political wheel. We have gotten lazy and abdicated so much responsibility to big brother, who will gladly take it at our expense.

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    IT WAS NEVER ABOUT TORTOISES! it was about the First Amendment and the notion an American citizen can "have no rights" while standing on public land.
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.


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