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Thread: Ranch & Hunt Club Security

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    Default Ranch & Hunt Club Security

    I'm setting up an old ranch as a hunt club for hogs. I've deliberately made my user name and profile vague because one of my concerns is security. If I were to ever divulge my contact information or location, I would first contact the moderators and work out a sponsor arrangement. But, back to the point of this thread, security...

    As a newbie coming into the sport, it seems that the vast majority of hunters are people who respect laws, regulations, private property, and the sacrifice of a loss of a life that animals give in order for the sport to continue. There is a small fraction of hunters that poach, trespass, don't tag their game, etc. For example, in the following thread, it seems like the user "pathfyndr" got a rumor that some land had pigs, and he went there, trespassed and was chased off the property:
    http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/...sed+ranch+hand

    Why would pathfyndr drive 3 hours to trespass on some land? Do hunters regularly share information about ranches with weak security so that they can take advantage of the landowners by trespassing and illegally hunting? pathfyndr's post seemed so nonchalant and no-one even questioned him on it!

    I'm setting up a hunting club on a ranch. I don't want my information shared amongst poachers and trespassers. I don't want to end up as a story on a message board where some guy talks about how he hopped a fence and successfully shot hogs. I simply don't want to be face to face with drunk hooligans with guns in my back yard. What security measures to I need? here are some, but please add to the list...

    1. Patrolling the ranch regularly, but with special mindfulness to hunting schedules. For example, patrolling at 5am on opening day for dove season. This year I slept until 10am like I do on the average Saturday. Doh!
    2. "No Trespassing" signs along the entire perimeter of the ranch. Perhaps every 1/3 mile?
    3. People constantly here like the ranch hand who chased pathfyndr off the property.
    4...

    Please let me know what good security measures are, as to prevent online rumors like the one pathfyndr heard.
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    I read his post and I dont think that Pathfyndr knew it was private property. Infact, it seemed that he was frustrated that someone gave him some false information. I really dont understand the motive behind your posts. But, why are you asking us how to set up your secret hunting spot that no one can know about. First you wanted to know how much to charge, then you want to know how to keep people out............Is it me, or am I missing something here?

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    I have been hunting hogs on a constant basis for the past 20 yrs. I also did a little guiding about 15 years ago and it was a lot of work, but pretty rewarding. Hogs are a "Hot Commodity" in the State of California. Guides are charging anywhere from $400-$1000 these days. A lot of people are DIY hunters and don't want to pay those fee's. MOST hunters are good people and very ethical. You need to watch out for that 1 or 2% who don't follow rules and don't care about the consequences if caught. I think what you have already mentioned are all good ideas. I don't know how many acres you are working with here. First and formost, I would make sure you secure your entrances/exits with the thickest chain you can get. I would also buy quality locks. I have seen over the years landowners who use some junk chain and it get cut by a cheap pair of bolt cutters. Spend the money and invest in some quality chain. I would post "No Hunting/No Trespassing" signs all over the perimeter of the property.

    I would also invest in game cameras and post them (Hidden) at every entrance and exit of the property. This is a great tool! A LOT of poachers will drive right up to your gate and try to gain access. This way you have a game camera that can capture the license plate of the vehicle they are driving and pass that information along to Law Enforcement if the need arises. Active patrols are always good, but they are very time consuming and something you cant do every single day if you have a full-time job and a family. One thing I have learned. If someone wants in to your property, they will find a way in. You can only do so much to protect it.

    Hope this helps. Goodluck on your new ranch operation!
    ~Hunting the West and beyond~

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    Quote Originally Posted by socaltaxi View Post
    I read his post and I dont think that Pathfyndr knew it was private property. Infact, it seemed that he was frustrated that someone gave him some false information. I really dont understand the motive behind your posts. But, why are you asking us how to set up your secret hunting spot that no one can know about. First you wanted to know how much to charge, then you want to know how to keep people out............Is it me, or am I missing something here?
    Maybe this is the first time you're seeing things from a landowner perspective and are confused. I have just as many DFG regulations as you do, plus I have to worry about security, etc.

    Yes, I want to set up a hunt club. Yes, I want to know how much to charge, how to do cold storage, how to maintain security, how to be a guide... Isn't it all pretty self explanatory what my goals are? And yes you could call it a "secret hunting spot" for now because I'm not posting the GPS coordinates until I actually have a guide license, have security measures in place, and work out a sponsor arrangement with the forum. Does that make sense, or do you just expect things to be a free-for-all?
    Last edited by DurtenTyler; 09-09-2012 at 11:41 AM.
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtenTyler View Post
    I'm setting up an old ranch as a hunt club for hogs. I've deliberately made my user name and profile vague because one of my concerns is security. If I were to ever divulge my contact information or location, I would first contact the moderators and work out a sponsor arrangement. But, back to the point of this thread, security...

    As a newbie coming into the sport, it seems that the vast majority of hunters are people who respect laws, regulations, private property, and the sacrifice of a loss of a life that animals give in order for the sport to continue. There is a small fraction of hunters that poach, trespass, don't tag their game, etc. For example, in the following thread, it seems like the user "pathfyndr" got a rumor that some land had pigs, and he went there, trespassed and was chased off the property:
    http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/...sed+ranch+hand

    Why would pathfyndr drive 3 hours to trespass on some land? Do hunters regularly share information about ranches with weak security so that they can take advantage of the landowners by trespassing and illegally hunting? pathfyndr's post seemed so nonchalant and no-one even questioned him on it!

    I'm setting up a hunting club on a ranch. I don't want my information shared amongst poachers and trespassers. I don't want to end up as a story on a message board where some guy talks about how he hopped a fence and successfully shot hogs. I simply don't want to be face to face with drunk hooligans with guns in my back yard. What security measures to I need? here are some, but please add to the list...

    1. Patrolling the ranch regularly, but with special mindfulness to hunting schedules. For example, patrolling at 5am on opening day for dove season. This year I slept until 10am like I do on the average Saturday. Doh!
    2. "No Trespassing" signs along the entire perimeter of the ranch. Perhaps every 1/3 mile?
    3. People constantly here like the ranch hand who chased pathfyndr off the property.
    4...

    Please let me know what good security measures are, as to prevent online rumors like the one pathfyndr heard.
    I saw no indication that pathfinder "Trespassed" intentionaly. He clearly stated that there were no signs and no gates, in fact he said it was a Chevron Foreman that ran him off the property which leads me to believe that there was no indication it was a private ranch. If you post, fence and gate your land you will at least discourage the unknowing that accidently access an area that is off limits. I wouldn't be so quick to condemn Pathfinder but rather work on solving your own concerns regarding your buisness adventure. Good luck I hope things work out for you Durten Tylor.
    An archer tries to see how far away he can get from his target and still connect. A bow hunter tries to see how close he can get to his.

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    yea man calling out a member like that is not a way of getting business. I for one would never go use your ranch simply because I dont trust you now. You through out a false accusation calling him a trespasser and a poacher. That means you either one are lieing or two you are quick to pass judgement. How pathfindyr said there was no gates or signs posted. I suggest going back and editing your op.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    yea man calling out a member like that is not a way of getting business. I for one would never go use your ranch simply because I dont trust you now. You through out a false accusation calling him a trespasser and a poacher. That means you either one are lieing or two you are quick to pass judgement. How pathfindyr said there was no gates or signs posted. I suggest going back and editing your op.
    I'm totally confused. Maybe it's because I'm a city slicker. In the city, if someone drove their truck into my front yard and jumped out with a shotgun, I would be nervous. In the country, if there are no gates, its okay to drive onto a road? What do you mean by "signs posted"? What signs should a landowner post? You're right I called out pathfyndr, which is kind of a jerk move on my part, but I didn't mis-represent him. He told a story about how he was trespassing and was chased off private property where he was attempting to hunt. As a hunt club manager, how could I prevent situations like that?
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjack View Post
    I saw no indication that pathfinder "Trespassed" intentionaly. He clearly stated that there were no signs and no gates, in fact he said it was a Chevron Foreman that ran him off the property which leads me to believe that there was no indication it was a private ranch. If you post, fence and gate your land you will at least discourage the unknowing that accidently access an area that is off limits. I wouldn't be so quick to condemn Pathfinder but rather work on solving your own concerns regarding your buisness adventure. Good luck I hope things work out for you Durten Tylor.
    Good advice. It wasn't pathfyndr's fault at all. I want to prevent confusion. What exactly does it mean to "post" the land? Does that mean "private property" signs or "no trespassing" signs or both? Should they be placed at each gate, or every so many yards along the miles of fenceline? We have a couple public roads that go for miles through the ranch so I'm curious how many dozens of signs, and specifically what signs, I need to purchase and staple up.

    I just want to prevent confusion amongst hunters like pathfyndr. I would hate for him to come out here to the ranch and end up pressing charges on him for what was an honest mistake. But doesn't some responsibility fall on the hunter to know who owns the land they hunt on? I'm not sure how that works. Please feel free to drop some knowledge since I'm a newb.

    One of the tenants told me he heard gunshots on the ranch at 7am this morning, which I didn't find out until the afternoon. It seems like its been a free-for-all to local hunters for many years. I'm the new management and just want things managed correctly to prevent confusion/trespassing. This place is huge and I'm overwhelmed right now.
    Last edited by DurtenTyler; 09-09-2012 at 01:23 PM.
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    Go to dfg.ca.org for the correct regs. All private land must be posted. Every quarter mile i think. If its not posted you are allowed to hunt there. There is city laws that prevent hunting within city limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtenTyler View Post
    Good advice. It wasn't pathfyndr's fault at all. I want to prevent confusion. What exactly does it mean to "post" the land? Does that mean "private property" signs or "no trespassing" signs or both? Should they be placed at each gate, or every so many yards along the miles of fenceline? We have a couple public roads that go for miles through the ranch so I'm curious how many dozens of signs, and specifically what signs, I need to purchase and staple up.

    I just want to prevent confusion amongst hunters like pathfyndr. I would hate for him to come out here to the ranch and end up pressing charges on him for what was an honest mistake. But doesn't some responsibility fall on the hunter to know who owns the land they hunt on? I'm not sure how that works. Please feel free to drop some knowledge since I'm a newb.

    One of the tenants told me he heard gunshots on the ranch at 7am this morning, which I didn't find out until the afternoon. It seems like its been a free-for-all to local hunters for many years. I'm the new management and just want things managed correctly to prevent confusion/trespassing. This place is huge and I'm overwhelmed right now.
    From what I understand you do not want to post No Hunting signs as this will also apply to you and your clients as well. No Trespassing / Pravate Property signs are what you need. As Solus indicated I believe it's every 1/4 mile but I would error on the side of caution and place more to let people know you are serious. I would also give all of the tennants on the property your direct # so you can respond quickly to any complaints.
    As for the pathfinder thing, it also seems that you are asking questions and learning, this is a good thing. We all make gaffs from time to time on this forum. The key is to learn from your mistakes and move on. Keep at it Durten Tyler, your on the right track!
    An archer tries to see how far away he can get from his target and still connect. A bow hunter tries to see how close he can get to his.

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    For example, in the following thread, it seems like the user "pathfyndr" got a rumor that some land had pigs, and he went there, trespassed and was chased off the property:
    Wow, what a leap that was. I'd apologize to pathfynder if I was you. I've also been asked to leave land that wasn't posted so am I a trespasser that should have known better too?

    Again, instead of posting a question here each day on how to start your business you really need to sit down with a lawyer, accountant and maybe a hog guide/outfitter and let them bring you up to speed. A lawyer can give you good advice on liability, trespass, whether to go LLC or S corp etc. Trying to poor boy it here with answers from the members isn't the best way to start your company, trust me.

    You also need to listen to what experienced people are telling you. Everyone said to go walk in cooler but you're set on chest freezers. This will cost you a lot of wasted money and time. Listen to the graybacks, they've walked that road many times before.
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    DT, when you first started posting for advice on your venture I was quite hopeful for you. Especially, I was impressed by the boldness of your statement that you left a business cubicle to then live on credit cards to follow your dream. But, it seems to me that if you no longer have to put in a lot of hours in your cubicle, you should have enough time to research a lot of the legal/business/regulatory concerns that you are trying to mine information about on these forums. All of these concerns are easily researched online.

    Why are you not posting your research results and then asking for suggestions? Why are you seeming to suggest in some of your posts that you only want "experienced" hunters on your land so that you are assured of a kill fee? Why are you assuming that newbie hunters are slobs?

    I'm sorry, but you are losing my gut-feeling support. I am not anti city-slicker, been there, done that, but I am a central valley grown boy that has hunted all my life in the area, and I am getting turned off by the tone of some of your posts.

    I may be out of line posting this, but I cannot refrain from expressing my thoughts on this. You might want to consider these thoughts in your business plan. I sincerely hope you have success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
    Wow, what a leap that was. I'd apologize to pathfynder if I was you. I've also been asked to leave land that wasn't posted so am I a trespasser that should have known better too?
    I wasn't aware that its legal and acceptable to go hunting on any land that doesn't have signs posted. This is totally new to me. That's pretty cool though, because there is tons of land in California that doesn't have signs posted. That means once I get more into hunting, I'll have tons of places to go!
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrabbit View Post
    Why are you not posting your research results and then asking for suggestions?
    Actually thats exactly what I did. When I made this thread I shared three things, from my research, and then asked for suggestions! Did you not read my post?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackrabbit View Post
    Why are you seeming to suggest in some of your posts that you only want "experienced" hunters on your land so that you are assured of a kill fee?
    I'm a newbie. The best I could offer would be "semi guided" hunts. If I had a newbie as a customer, that's the blind leading the blind!

    Quote Originally Posted by jackrabbit View Post
    Why are you assuming that newbie hunters are slobs?
    I'm not assuming newbie hunters are slobs. What makes you think that? I'm a newbie hunter.
    Former Cubicle Dweller / Private Ranch Living / Aspiring Hunter & Guide / California

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    Somebody is crapping in their own mess kit! Take a breath....use your head. Its ok to do research in order to begin a venture....just don't have an opinion until you've gained the knowledge that gives the right to said opinion. What your doing is hunting! Plain n simple....and nobody starts out hunting perfectly. Things are learned along the way. Good and bad. So... get er done and get to honing!

    DISCLAIMER: some of the things I say may be unfiltered, offensive, or even complete B.S.

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    Can I offer some advice? Lease your property to an organization such as Wilderness Unlimited, they will patrol it and control access to it. Do this as a baby step util you set up your own private club. Through this you can make contacts, ask questions and get an idea of some of the headaches you will deal with except it will be their problem as they are responsible.

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    USD has some good advice.

    Reading this and thinking about it I have some questions and observations.

    Among the hunting community, becoming a successful guide is considered top of the food chain in our world. When we pay for a service, we expect value for our hard-earned cash. That means having a guide that knows the land intimately, in all seasons. This person should be know the target animal behaviour better than his family and be able to put a client in position for a shot opportunity. He's the expert.

    Reputation is everything. As you've already gathered, this is a tight knit communitity and we talk.

    Guiding is a service industry. If we get good value, are treated well and are successful, you'll be booked all year long via word of mouth.

    Being a guide is HARD work. The few timess I paid a guide, they woke us a 0400, ensured we were ready, hunted with us all day and put us to bed at 2300. He took care of the game, the storage, arranged for the butchering and recommended a good taxidermist. I felt they they were working hard for the money and very interested in my success.

    Don't expect to get rich. Most guides I've met, do if for extra cash to supplement an income. A few of them didn't own much beyond thier binos and a truck.

    Some questions and things to ponder.

    1) what's your target clientele? Urbanites or experienced hunters? Each group needs be handled differently and will have different requirements.

    2) What huntable animals are on the property? Are they sustainable? Are they seasonal or migratory? What can you do to help those critters stay on your property instead of going to a neighbors.

    3) How much will the market bear? Be realistic on fee's. The price range for a semi-guided pig hunt ranges from $200-450. The $200 hunt is hit and miss and the $450 is Tejon Ranch and is loaded with hogs.

    4) Are you considering trophy fees? Trophy fees are crap. I'm immediately turned off by those, especially on a low fence operation.

    5) What do you do with an unsuccessful client? Have a plan, remember it's a service industry.

    Those are some of things my friends and I considered a few years ago, when we almost went into the business.

    My suggestion is to book yourself a hunt with a top-rated guide and see how its done, correctly.
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    Sorry about that. Tried to hit discard. This kids just sends to have no clue. I'm lucky enough to have access to 3 different ranches, and all three get poachers all the time with fences and signs. Just part of the game. But if you're hunting on public land near private land lots if land owners don't put fences in the out if the way places so it's easy to cross into someone's property and not know.
    Just wondering how much experience you have in the outdoors? I'm new to hunting but have fished and hiked my whole life.


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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Go to dfg.ca.org for the correct regs. All private land must be posted. Every quarter mile i think. If its not posted you are allowed to hunt there. There is city laws that prevent hunting within city limits.
    Not stepping on your toes at all Solus. Just wanted to clear something up. Just because a private chunk of land is "Not Posted", does not allow someone to hunt there. Granted if you are a landowner, it would be in your best interest to post your property. It only gives people a fair warning and supports your case in court if it happens to go that route. Someone can be escorted off a property if signs are not posted and you have no legal right to be in the area. If signs are posted and you simply walk past them, that's a whole different game. That was your warning and now you can be cited or arrested on site. You are suppose to know who owns the land even if it's not posted.
    Last edited by HOGHUNTER714; 09-10-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOGHUNTER714 View Post
    Not stepping on your toes at all Solus. Just wanted to clear something up. Just because a private chunk of land is "Not Posted", does not allow someone to hunt there. Granted if you are a landowner, it would be in your best interest to post your property. It only gives people a fair warning and supports your case in court if it happens to go that route. Someone can be escorted off a property if signs are not posted and you have no legal right to be in the area. If signs are posted and you simply walk past them, that's a whole different game. That was your warning and now you can be cited or arrested on site. You are suppose to know who owns the land even if it's not posted.
    Either of you care to cite a source?
    This is public land, we're not hunting we're hiking with guns.

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    FGC 2016: It is unlawful to enter any lands under cultivation or enclosed by a fence, belonging to, or occupied by another, or ... where signs forbidding tresspass are displayed at intervals not less than three to a mile all along the exterior boundries...



    Basically you can't be arrested for hunting on private property unless it is under cultivation, fenced, or posted. If the landowner catches you on his property he can legally ask you to leave, but if you comply with his request you cannot be charged with tresspassing.
    Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine


    I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS

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    Here's the whole thing

    CAL. FGC. CODE 2016 : California Code - Section 2016: It is unlawful to enter any lands under cultivation or enclosed by a fence, belonging to, or occupied by, another, or to enter any uncultivated or unenclosed lands, including lands temporarily inundated by waters flowing outside the established banks of a river, stream, slough, or other waterway, where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering such lands, for the purpose of discharging any firearm or taking or destroying any mammal or bird, including any waterfowl, on such lands without having first obtained written permission from the owner of such lands, or his agent, or the person in lawful possession thereof. Such signs may be of any size and wording, other than the wording required for signs under Section 2017, which will fairly advise persons about to enter the land that the use of such land is so restricted.


    Assuming you don't have permission, does this mean...

    Fenced Private Property= Always Unlawful
    Unfenced Private Property = Only Unlawful if its posted

    ?
    Last edited by DurtenTyler; 09-10-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense View Post

    Basically you can't be arrested for hunting on private property unless it is under cultivation, fenced, or posted. If the landowner catches you on his property he can legally ask you to leave, but if you comply with his request you cannot be charged with tresspassing.
    If it is posted, fenced, or under cultivation you can be cited.
    Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine


    I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS

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    Getting back to your security question- I think your biggest concern should be vehicle traffic and having stout gates. Don't bother with chain and pad locks they are worthless. Have you ever seen a forest service gate or any other gov property gate? There's locking mechanisms that keep the lock itself from being victim to damage. Most poachers are lazy and POS's so they will be in vehicles looking for places to partake. I'd definetly put in trail cams, don't hide them, put them behind the gate on the side of the road next to the locking side of the gate in a yello steel enclosure that's set in a concrete footing. If someone see's there caught on camera and the camera is not easy to damage or remove they'll more than likely leave it alone and move on.

    You probably won't ever be able to keep out people on foot unless you patrol your boarders. Post no tresspassing signs 3 times per mile and make sure to tend to your fences repairing holes and broken barb wire.

    Good luck, enjoy your ranch, and take a lot of what's said in here with grain of salt....

  26. #26
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    Allow another fellow Fresno hunter, such as myself, to hunt your property, and I'll be sure to keep my ears and eyes open for trespassers and let them know they are trespassing. I also wouldn't mind just patrolling the area in the morning and the evening looking for trespassers, just to be able to hunt your property.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtenTyler View Post

    Assuming you don't have permission, does this mean...

    Fenced Private Property= Always Unlawful
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by DurtenTyler View Post
    Unfenced Private Property = Only Unlawful if its posted
    False. It's unlawful if it is either 1) under cultivation or 2) posted 3 to the mile.



    Best case scenario for the hunter - FIND OUT WHO OWNS IT AND GAIN PERMISSION.

    -Marc

  28. #28
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    " There is a small fraction of hunters that poach, trespass, don't tag their game, etc."

    First you need to understand that these people are not hunters they are criminals.
    Nothing on God's earth has a price so dear and profound as Freedom.
    Nothing on God's earth is worth such a price but Freedom.

  29. #29
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    I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

    Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

    Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

    I dont think this is smelling real :)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7mallards View Post
    I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

    Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

    Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

    I dont think this is smelling real :)

    DiDo, somethig is not right I like all you guys for the help I get on this board but i would never start a business from the advice on here. I think if this is real the post from 1usd is right on. just my 2 pennies worth

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