Gun Training

[3056_HUNTER]

I took out the blank gun this morning. Ripped off 5 shots from about 25 yards to see my horses reaction. A he did a head jerk and small bolt on the first shot then just head jerks for the remaining 4 shots. Anyone done gun training before? Suggestions? This is my first time gun training and my goal is being able to rifle hunt off him or near him and for mounted patrol without disaster.

My plan was to work closer over a few days shooting 2-3 sessions until I can get him on a long lead line and sack him out and work my way into the saddle. Kinda of like saddle breaking. Am I on the right track?

[Bubblehide]

Hunter, a lot of people will start with audio tapes (there are audio tapes from single shots, to cannon fire) to desensitize the animal, whether it be a horse, dog, or? The audio tapes allow you to provide much more exposure to the sound(s) than normally or practically possible. The whole idea is to normalize the sound. from there, you can introduce the animal to live fire. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between an audio tape, and live fire, as an audio tape doesn't produce the same sound wave nor displace air as an actual bullet; in short you have an additional component or two involved with live fire. Some animals are much more sensitive to the concussive sound/displacement of live fire, and some people have used cotton inside the ears of there animals, if the animal would tolerate it. Since I lived in an area with live fire civil war re-enactments, and an open invitation, I took advantage or that opportunity from time to time. Granted, my horse would shake it's head from the cannon fire, but she remained compliant.

Now that we have the toleration part out of the way, you might want to consider the trust issue. When I did have horses, I was able to do some amazing things with/to my animals, not because what I was doing was amazing, but rather the conditions made the act either amazing, or a little on the crazy side. A couple examples were having my horse get two of her hoofs locked into a broken and downed tree branch that was about 12 feet long, with a few forking branched. She had two of her hoofs locked into a couple of the forks, and was thrashing about trying to free herself, close to a full panic. I simply walked up calm as could be and started talking to her, she instantly calmed, held still and allowed me to crawl under her, lift her legs, and free them; and the important part, crawl back out from under her, without budging. Another time, around the 4th of July, while out on a ride with a small group, while crossing a street (in a horse crossing), a few kids thought it would be a good idea to shoot bottle rockets at our horses, (yes, while we were on them). While everyone else got out of Dodge just to try and manage their hyped-up fearful beasts, I ASKED my horse to head straight towards the bottle rockets that were not only still coming in our direction, but flying between my horses legs. Once I knew my horse would not only tolerate the situation, but actually listen to my REQUESTS, we (my horse and I) chased the boys down. Two of boys were smart enough to give up and exhibit embarrassment for their stupidity, one ran off, while the last one remained defiant and belligerent, well, until I ASKED my horse to side pass, knocking the punk on his ass, and knocking enough sense into him to silence him. My point here is, that from my experience, I've been able to get my animals to do more from asking, than I ever have from pushing them to do something; it's not the only way to train an animal, but it fits me well.

Additionally, although I have, for a period of time, hunted extensively from horseback, I prefer to utilize the horse to get me into the area I want to hunt, and then hunt from foot. Despite many believing that horses don't spook deer, that theory didn't hold up, again from my experience; which does include lots of glassing/observing of animals and seeing how they react in/to different situations, including how they react to horses and people on horseback.

As for obtaining audio tapes, you might try some of the dog/field training publications, Cabela's...

Best of luck!

[3056_HUNTER]

good info. thanks Bubble.

I have owned this horse since dec 2011 completely unbroke and turned 3 recently. He has a good head and tolerates alot. I train by pressure/release and alot of respect not by force. the only one that gets hurt is usually me when i saddle break or push too hard too fast while in saddle. Your comments inspire me to be more verbal with my gelding. ill keep ya'll posted on he progress. more input is welcome.

[Bubblehide]

Hunter, your welcome! It's always nice to be able to provide useful information. It sounds like you've got yourself a good horse, and a whole lot of enjoyable years ahead. I'm sure there are others here that can add a lot, hopefully they'll chime in.

[inchr48]

I asked a judge at an AKC Hunt Test (for our bird dog) how she conditioned her horse to the shotgun blasts. She said the easiest way is to start a new horse around experienced ones. If the herd doesn't react (experienced horses), the new one figures it is OK.

With our dogs we always started with the blank gun (22 or 209) at a distance, firing away from them. Then every other day or so, we would move in if no negative reaction was given the previous test. Then we went .410, 20, and 12 gauge in the same manner. Rifles have a different sound to them, and I haven't shot them over my bird dogs.

Let us know how the training progresses. It's always interesting to hear how we can get animals to do what we want.

[3056_HUNTER]

I'm doing about 20 shots per day now and am about 15 feet from him. Only reaction is a small jerk and a head shake. He is pinned with a very experienced parade horse so I think that does help a lot. That horse doesn't even plink an eye! Hoping to be on his back with the gun as soon as I get this cast off next week.

[Bubblehide]

Hunter, I strongly suggest that you climb on the horse and let someone else, from a safe place, fire the gun, to start with, and when you do shoot off of him for the first few time, have only one round with you while on his back, for obvious safety reasons. I'd bet when it's all done and said, you"ll think this advice overkill, but I'm sure you don't want any accidents, let alone a tragedy.

[3056_HUNTER]

I usually do everything on my own but I think ur suggestion makes good sence. I don't really want another broken bone!

[Farmerdoug]

So how's that broken wrist treating you?.... Are you back in the saddle yet?.......Just checking in on you brother to see how you were doing, and how that gun shot breaking was coming along. I remember working my horses on gun training. It wasn't that bad. To this day, I still can't fire a high powered rifle over their back. A bow yes; a rifle no.....Although, I have no problem shooting next to them. I just dismount, throw the reins over my forearm, and let it rip. There's only been a few instances where one would run of about 50 yards, and then high tail it back to be with the other horse(s) and the men.......

[3056_HUNTER]

Wrist is healed but still sore... I was back riding a couple days after the cast went on! Then I got fixed so I was down for a while too. Gun training went good never got in the saddle yet due to the circumstances but I will when I'm 100 percent and can ride out whatever happens. I'll post a video of it.

[Rob P.]

MY recommendation is to use a cap pistol instead of blanks.

At about 25 ft, fire off 1 or 2 caps - then approach & give the horse a treat and/or a pat. Walk back to position and fire some more caps. Another pat/treat etc. You can, over several days, get closer but the horse will dictate how much he can tolerate.

If he's still jumping/starting you may have to move back to a further distance until he's comfortable before you can start getting closer until you are next to him. Mix this up with some round pen time/training so that he doesn't think you're harassing him for no reason.

I would NEVER recommend shooting while mounted. It's an unstable platform at best and (at worst) you could shoot your own mount, companion, or yourself accidentally. It may look cool in the movies but in real life it's a dumb dumb dumb idea. Dismount, get clear & stable, acquire target, then shoot. If you don't have time for all that, you didn't have a good/clear shot with a good target/backstop anyway.

[3056_HUNTER]

Disagree.... I have seen people shoot mounted very well. Plus in order to get qualified for mounted patrol I need to shoot off his back. Just like with any other training the horse has to have the personality for the job and it takes time.

[brknarrow]

i would be holdn him while someone was shooting, so i could release the pressure after jerks or bolts/pulls..course i never get much help so i use an aussie tie ring

[Bubblehide]

...I would NEVER recommend shooting while mounted. It's an unstable platform at best and (at worst) you could shoot your own mount, companion, or yourself accidentally. It may look cool in the movies but in real life it's a dumb dumb dumb idea. Dismount, get clear & stable, acquire target, then shoot. If you don't have time for all that, you didn't have a good/clear shot with a good target/backstop anyway.

I also disagree, not only have I shot of several horses backs, while in the saddle, I've used their backs as a rest, and had my animals around cannon fire. The fact is that horses have been used for not only food gathering/hunting purposes since the dawn of man, but for warfare purposes also (think Ganges Kan). Granted there are attributes in both people and horses that make some better suited for this type of activity.

3056_Hunter, I glad to hear your wrist is healing well/healed, and that your horse is coming along; it sounds like your going to have a fine enjoyable animal under you.