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Thread: Nock height change help

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    Default Nock height change help

    So after a few hundred arrows I wore out my D loop. I took my bow down to Hi Tech Archery and had them put on a new loop. I go to shoot my bow yesterday and at 20 yards I'm consistantly 8-9" high. After reading around on the net, it seems like maybe my nock height may have changed. I didn't watch the guy that changed the D loop, so I don't know if he measured what I had it set before. Regardless I think the nock height might have changed. Do you think that I'm on the right track or what would you think the issue could be? I'm thinking I may need to paper tune/check to make sure my arrow is leaving my rest straight and not pitched up/down.

    I've already adjusted my sight and I'm back on target but, I'm one adjustment line away from no more adjustment. I would like to know for the future and a when I have to put another D loop on, I'd like to adjust it so my sight is back in the middle of the adjustable amount. If the D loop height is the culprit and I move the height of the loop up, what direction would that cause the arrow to move or vice versa.

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    Last edited by J.O.; 03-09-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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    adjust up should make it go down like on iron sights on a rifle

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    I've seen a few guys that have a brass ring on the string that they appears to be where the abutt the nock to. Never talked to them about it but I don't have that on mine. Any of you guys have any experience or knowledge about this? Maybe this would help make sure the point never changes. Like this thing http://www.google.com/imgres?q=brass...4&tx=109&ty=62
    Last edited by J.O.; 03-09-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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    That was originally the way to nock an arrow either on top or bottom before D loops. I cant remember if they put those on my new strings but its a good way to keep track of where to have the arrows knocked at. Because it doesnt move when you change out your D loop ask your shop if it would help. Just to have it there. I haven't asked about them in years, so my memory is a little fuzzy

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.O. View Post
    I've seen a few guys that have a brass ring on the string that they appears to be where the abutt the nock to. Never talked to them about it but I don't have that on mine. Any of you guys have any experience or knowledge about this? Maybe this would help make sure the point never changes. Like this thing http://www.google.com/imgres?q=brass...4&tx=109&ty=62
    If you don't want to loose speed just tie some serving or dental floss where your nock location would be so you know where to tie your dloop

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    Your "nock height" should usually be 1/8 to 1/4" higher than perpendicular (90 degrees) to your bow string.

    Put an arrow on the string and arrow rest and see if it is just higher than 90 degrees. You can eye-ball if you don't have a bow square.

    Also I learned over the last few years, when solving bow issues. Change only 1 thing at a time. Your D Loop, then a sight adjustment makes two varibles that have to be corrected to get you back to where you started.

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    We do this a lot on traditional bows.

    I'll usually do something like inchr48 suggested. I'll then tune it up or down till I'm right on then I create a nock point using white thread (I hate brass nock rings).
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    Quote Originally Posted by inchr48 View Post
    Your "nock height" should usually be 1/8 to 1/4" higher than perpendicular (90 degrees) to your bow string.

    Put an arrow on the string and arrow rest and see if it is just higher than 90 degrees. You can eye-ball if you don't have a bow square.

    Also I learned over the last few years, when solving bow issues. Change only 1 thing at a time. Your D Loop, then a sight adjustment makes two varibles that have to be corrected to get you back to where you started.

    Try to relax and enjoy the journey. I found it frustrating at times, but always educational.
    Would this be at a drawn position but not string drawn? I have a trophy taker rest. IMG_0005.jpgIf its drawn I can just pull the actuator string. If its not drawn, the arrow sits at a downward angle for sure until the rest pulls it up. As for the adjustment on the sight, I made a note what mark I was at just incase I had to go back to it. I don't have a bow square but I do have squares and levels. I'll check it out once I get home. Good advice.

    I called the shop that initially had it setup at a little bit ago and they said the guy who redid my loop must have moved the nock position. They advised me to set my sight back to where it was and go back to the guy and have him redo it. Shoot the bow after he changes it and see if its back where they set it up. If not, have him change it again until its back where it was. Or mail my bow back up to Oregon and they'd take care of it.
    Last edited by J.O.; 03-09-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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    Yep, just high of 90 degrees at rest, but arrow rest up. I love my Rip-cord drop rest. Pull the rest up to lock, put an arrow and the bow square on, and you check your center shot.

    Pins on sight just touching the string (horizontal).
    Rest centered Horizontally as well.

    From your picture, I'd say you are nocking high now. Typically your arrow just high of center of holes on riser is standard. JMHO

    Then I work on the sight, horizontal and vertical.
    Last edited by inchr48; 03-09-2012 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Re-look at pic.
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    once you get it all done..take a pic of your bow..(or use a factory photo) and measure everything. mark down all your measurements on the photo.

    i still need to do this.

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    I would shoot it through butcher paper @ 5' away. Just set a ladder with paper stretched between the legs 3 feet in front of your target. You can tell if you have a perfect bullet hole with 3 vane cuts evenly around it that it is shooting correct. If the vane cuts are above the hole, which will now be oblong or a tear, the arrow is leaving your bow nock high. You then just slide the D loop down a tiny bit and shoot again.(Basically moving the vanes towards where the point is hitting) If the vane marks are to the right of the tear or hole it is flying nock right. You adjust that by moving rest slightly to right. (Because you are moving rest instead of D loop you move front of arrow towards where vanes are hitting. If you shoot broadheads, they are effected more than field points by arrow leaving crooked and will not shoot in same place as field points. I always shoot groups of broadheads and field points out to whatever distance you have sights(I go to 80 yds.) and make sure they group the same. I usually shoot two broad heads and two field points each time to make sure it is the bow and not I that is off. I stick golf tees in my target and shoot at a different one each time. That way you do not wreck your arrows (especially with broadheads). It is easy to see by looking at arrows in relation to tees you were shooting at where you are grouping with the field points and the broadheads.(At least it is if I am shooting decent anyways:) If BH and FPoints are not hitting the same spots in relation to the tees simply adjust up and down with the d loop (Assuming you have the rest sitting at the height where it should be) and adjust left and right by moving the rest slightly. Simply move to aim arrow so that it points more towards the direction where field points were hitting. Do not even mess with the sight during this all. After you are shooting target points in the same spot as broadheads you dial your sight in. That all may sound complicated, but if you understand that the blades coming out at a slight angle catch wind and steer arrow off course a wee bit before the vanes stabilize it to head straight, you will understand perfectly the theory of this process and be able to just look at your setup without having to memorize any of this and know which way to move what to adjust things. You adjust towards where the field points are hitting because they are less affected by a crooked arrow off the rest. It does not take much of an adjustment to affect flight. I shoot with fixed and expandable blades. I use the fixed ones for this because they show up more difference. Muzzy has a nice little practice broadhead in their packs that pulls easier than regular broadheads and does not cut my target up as bad. If I am shooting well I can do this at 30 yds. and after two of each I know exactly what to do. If you do not get a tight group from each type of arrow you have to shoot again or maybe shoot more of each arrow till you can see a pattern. I see your bow is camo so I assume you will hunt. Whatever you do, always shoot some broadheads for practice before you hunt. If something moves a bit it will show up more drastic with broadheads and if you do not paper or broadhead tune you are just lucky if they fly the same place. I also find that when I practice with broadheads I notice if my grip changes or or I am torquing the bow at the shot. When I go to range and practice I always shoot my first arrow a broadhead at 50 or 60 yards. When crunch time comes I will get just 1 shot with a broadhead. And for me it will likely not be at 20yds! Good luck! Have FUN!

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    Thanks for the tips. The pic I posted above is when it was setup right at the bowrack. I want to get it back to that. Think I'm gonna head back to Hi tech this week after work and get the loop moved. Then get it dialed back to where it was when I left the bowrack. Mentally it bugging me that its not right.
    Last edited by J.O.; 03-12-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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    Unless they tied it in which I doubt, moving it is as simple as twisting it back and forth moving one side down first a little and then the other side. If you go there I would shoot it through paper to set it anyway.

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    Default Hooray for me!!

    Ya they tied the loop in. I went back to hi tech yesterday, had them take another look at the way it was setup. He put a tool on the string with a arrow fixed to it and said it was almost perfect. They recommended I adjust the sight and leave the rest and d loop where it was at. When I looked at the tool with that arrow on it, there was a very slight gap under the shaft when the rest was drawn. (like it wasn't fully seated). The arrow shaft on the tool looked thicker than the arrows I use. I assume thats probably where the differences in alignment are coming into play. I'm using the easton st axis n-fused arrow in 400 with custom wraps/vanes. http://www.eastonarchery.com/arrows/axis/0/2 Nocked arrow.JPG. (pic was taken prior to moving the sight up or making any adjustments). So I moved the adjuster' portion of the sight back to the middle and moved the sight housing portion up one bolt hole and adjusted the rest up just a pinch to accomodate my arrow thickness. Then paper tuned and it was dead on straight the first pull. Perfect circle with three vane blades. I proceeded to do it three more times and the results were the same. The pro shop guy came over to check it out and said he hadn't seen one that dead on in a long time. What I found strange is that he was telling me not to worry about the paper tuning and if it is dead on down field thats whats important. It was my thinking that the two go hand in hand but what do I know, I'm just a beginner. I then proceeded to re-sight it in and got it back on target like it was before.
    Thanks to all that chimed in. I feel like I learned allot from this.

    Although, I do have a new issue. After the sight in, I increased the draw weight until there was no more adjustment and then backed off a quarter turn. I had the shop check the draw weight and it registered at 68 lbs. The bow I have is a 70 lb. When I left the factory the tech told me the bow was capable of 72-74 lbs peak. At this point I'm short. Could this be a result of the strings stretching? I have approximately 500-600 shots on the factory string. Is that allot? I was told that the string was already prestretched prior.
    Last edited by J.O.; 03-16-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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    I assume you only want 68lbs. anyway? If I were only a quarter turn from max I would tighten it all the way unless it was not comfortable to pull. I like a maxxed out bow just because it seems everything is tighter and quieter. I would not worry about poundage unless you want more. Just get it where you want it and THEN shoot some broadheads and field points. The guy telling you it does not matter what it does through paper must not shoot broadheads. I would not want to go for help from a guy that has not seen a bullet hole through paper in a long time and does not think it is important.

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    hard to tell if you have any issues with the last photo since your rest is not in the "up" position. However, IMO you shouldn't need to have your sight mounted so low as you do in the photo. In my experience that usually means that your nockset or d-loop is too high up the string. If your nockset is too high (or if your arrow rest is set too low), your arrow will point down, giving you less trajectory, forcing you to set your sights lower to make up the lost trajectory. I would invest in a bow square and a roll of D-loop material and learn to do it yourself. The Easton Bow Tuning Guide is a good source of information. Also, you can youtube "Broadhead tuning" for some good video tutorials.

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