Sierra Outdoor Supply
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: New to Muzzle Loading

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default New to Muzzle Loading

    Just picked up a traditions Pursuit ultra light. I have read that the pyrodex is a good choice, are the white hots any good? Should I go with the 777 209 primers. Just trying to get an idea of what to start with that has proven to be good before I go out and spend a bunch on money.

    thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 03, 2012
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    I shoot a TC Omega have been for 8yrs. I played around wih all kinds of loads and found that the best for my gun and "me" (i can shoot the best), was 100 grains of 777 and a 240 gr TC jacketed hollow point sabot. That combo shoots 2-3" MOA at 100 yrds with my open sights. I've taken three mule deer at over 150 yrs. All three dropped like a rock.

    I would recommend the 777 two 50 grain pellets, 240 gr TC jacket sabot, and 209 primer. If you are hunting in an area that is lead free, go with the Barnes Expander series. Had good luck with those.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location
    Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
    Posts
    2,814
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 141 Times in 135 Posts

    Default

    I don't know if the Traditions is rated for Blackhorn 209, but if it is I would strongly suggest you use that. It's THE best muzzleloader propellant bar none on the market. No special cleaners, no cleaning between shots etc. and when you do clean you use plain old Hoppe's No. 9. It's a nitrocellullose like the propellent in your centerfire rifle so it's not hydroscopic. I'm getting 1/2" groups at 100 yards with my Omega using the Barnes TMZ. If you are in the condor range I would suggest either the TMZ or the TEZ in a 250 gr. loading. If you can't shoot Blackhorn, the best accuracy will be with loose 777 and a standard 209 primer; don't waste your money on the muzzleloader primers. They don't help. If you buy pellets you are wasting your money. A box of pellets (4 oz.) costs around $20. A POUND of the same powder costs about the same. You do the math.
    "The Sharps made the west safe for Winchesters."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    I looked on the traditions website but I could not find any ratings yet, I will continue to search. Also with the pellets they seem to cuase a lot more fouling. I need to order some scope rings so hopefully I can light this candle next weekend. Thanks for your guys input and anything else you can think of.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    On the gun in says use blackpowder or pyrodex only. Maximum powder load when using pyrodex is 150grains and when using triple 7 loose powder is 130grains. Not sure where Blackhorn fits in this mix.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location
    Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
    Posts
    2,814
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 141 Times in 135 Posts

    Default

    You might try looking up the Blackhorn info on their website. I don't know if they have info there. The Pyrodex and 777 maximums quoted sound about right. I would suggest that you will find best accuracy in the 100 to 110 gr. range.
    "The Sharps made the west safe for Winchesters."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 27, 2007
    Location
    Fallbrook, ca
    Posts
    4,279
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 234 Times in 219 Posts

    Default

    You'll only shoot 150 grains once! The gun will handle it, but I don't recommend it. The firearm will leap from your hands, pummel you about the face and arms and cause your friends to moisten themselves, not mention envelope you in a cloud of noxious smoke. The smoke will hide the obvious bleeding from the crescent shaped mark above your right eye.

    Trust me on that one!
    Life's short . . . Hunt hard

    Quote Originally Posted by ltdann View Post
    Sometimes, my thoughts get bored and they go for a walk out through my mouth. That rarely ends well.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 31, 2009
    Location
    woodland hills
    Posts
    1,895
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 102 Times in 87 Posts

    Default

    What ever you end up using, stick to "that" combo. The key to getting good results is consistency. I like the Blackhorn because of the easy cleanup sure, but because it is a synthetic it seems to me that that my shots are more consistent. Also, like Alan said: it's nonhydroscopic, which means you can leave it in your rifle and it won't attract water and pit the inside of the barrel... BTW I don't us anything over 100 grains any way especially with traditional powders, seems like I get some unburned stuff in there from time to time...
    TU member
    Sierra Pacific Fly fishers Association
    DU member
    CWA member
    SCVQUWF (santa clarita valley quail upland wildlife federation)

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming. ~John Steinbeck

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 01, 2008
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    1,230
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts

    Default

    Check the blackhorn website I believe they list what can and can't handle it. As far as mounting a scope, if you are going to use it to hunt then why waste the money? Muzzleloaders in this state (CA) have to be used with iron sights, no scopes allowed.

    I shoot an Omega and completely agree with K_rad and My Friend, BH and TEZ in 'should be extinct' bird country. Something you may consider while target shooting is to buy copper clad pistol bullets and black sabots. They are a lot cheaper and easier to clean up after when target shooting.

    Make it go Boom!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 24, 2002
    Posts
    2,288
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 54 Times in 52 Posts

    Default

    I shoot the pyrodex and 209 primers on my CVA wolf. Have never loaded 3 pellets in one shot and not planning to. Some of the guys I know shoot the loose pyrodex or some other loose powder. The 100 gr. (2 pellets) gave me the accuracy and the knock down energy that I need. I find the loose powder not suitable for my use because I use a flex loader to carry my follow up shots. Each tube will have two pyrodex powder and a sabot ready so I can just pull it out of the flex loader and pour in the muzzle, then ram in the sabot. With the loose powder, carrying the shots in the flex loader tube, sometimes the powder and sabot get's out of order.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 10, 2004
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    5,958
    Thanks
    255
    Thanked 191 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    I shoot BH209 in my Traditions, YMMV.

    I sight in with Hornady 240 gr. XTP's. Bullseye at 100 yards. Then use the tighter fitting Barnes 250 gr. sabots for 3" high at 100 yards. Since the Barnes load harder, I can use the XTP for a second shot if needed (quicker reload), and still be on target.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Think me not unkind and rude,

    That I walk alone through grove and glen.

    I go to seek the God of the wood,

    And fetch His word to men.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location
    Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
    Posts
    2,814
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 141 Times in 135 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyS View Post
    Check the blackhorn website I believe they list what can and can't handle it. As far as mounting a scope, if you are going to use it to hunt then why waste the money? Muzzleloaders in this state (CA) have to be used with iron sights, no scopes allowed.

    I shoot an Omega and completely agree with K_rad and My Friend, BH and TEZ in 'should be extinct' bird country. Something you may consider while target shooting is to buy copper clad pistol bullets and black sabots. They are a lot cheaper and easier to clean up after when target shooting.

    Make it go Boom!
    I hunt VAFB, and FHL has similar area restrictions for firearms (shotgun/muzzleloader areas), so a scope is just fine to use there. A muzzleloader season requires open sights. We often hunt in the rifle areas with our muzzleloaders--they're that good.
    "The Sharps made the west safe for Winchesters."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Well I was at Bass Pro today to pick up powder and other essentials for my new toy and walked by the muzzle loader display and noticed they had a TC Omega z5 on clearance sale for the exact same price as the traditions 279.00. So I went home boxed up the traditions, returned it for store credit and walked out with the Omega. I read some reviews on the ultra-light that started to make me rethink the purchase. I picked up some Blackhorn powder, Horandy 250grn sabots and Winchester primers. The scope mount I have does not work on the TC so that is the last thing I need.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    make sure to post some range pictures of how it/you shoot. Always wanted to get into a muzzleloader, but cant afford that new sub hobby.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location
    NORCAL
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jb229 View Post
    Just picked up a traditions Pursuit ultra light. I have read that the pyrodex is a good choice, are the white hots any good? Should I go with the 777 209 primers. Just trying to get an idea of what to start with that has proven to be good before I go out and spend a bunch on money.

    thanks.
    I also picked up a Pursuit. I really like it. I'm sure the Omega will serve you well.

    I have a question maybe you guys can help me with. I purchased a scope with this pursuit, but as I was reading the regs and it looks like I may not be able to use the scope. Section 353 does say that a scope can't be used on a deer/muzzleloader only tag. Soooo if I head out for pigs in TA 13 at Fort Hunter Liggett with a muzzleloader and scope will they lock me up or just fine me?

    You guys got any ideas?

    Thanks. Drypowder
    Last edited by drypowder; 04-22-2012 at 09:06 PM.
    Drypowder


    I have wondered at times what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the US Congress.
    - Ronald Reagan -

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 22, 2010
    Location
    OC, CA
    Posts
    4,281
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 165 Times in 157 Posts

    Default

    My ML doesn't have a scope and I don't use pellets because they are illegal to hunt with in some states. I find that part of the fun of muzzleloading is playing with different powders and loads, primers and bullets to find the sweet combination that provides the greatest accuracy. I'm by no means an accomplished ML shooter but I do love the unique challenges of smokepole shooting. Embrace the process.
    Last edited by Where's Bruce?; 04-22-2012 at 11:35 PM.
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location
    Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
    Posts
    2,814
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 141 Times in 135 Posts

    Default

    We've covered this before. A shotgun/muzzleloader AREA at FHL or VAFB is a restriction on the type of firearm used (to reduce the range of an errant bullet) and has no restriction on the type of sights used. A specific muzzleloader HUNT restricts you to iron sights unless you have an eyesight issue that precludes the use of iron sights. You have to get a doctor's note and approval to use optics and no magnification is allowed in that circumstance.
    "The Sharps made the west safe for Winchesters."

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Finally made it to the Range yesterday. I only shot at the 50yd range but 100grns of Blackhorn seemed to be the ticket.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location
    Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
    Posts
    2,814
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 141 Times in 135 Posts

    Default

    You will be pleased with the results of your setup. I often get three rounds touching at 100 using the Barnes TMZ and 110 gr. of Blackhorn and a WW primer. They chronograph close to 2,100 fps.
    "The Sharps made the west safe for Winchesters."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 13, 2004
    Location
    Mountain House, CA
    Posts
    787
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts

    Default

    Nice, I may switch from the winchester 777 primers I bought they are pretty dirty. I would take 3 shots and clean.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 12, 2011
    Location
    NORCAL
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myfriendis410 View Post
    We've covered this before. A shotgun/muzzleloader AREA at FHL or VAFB is a restriction on the type of firearm used (to reduce the range of an errant bullet) and has no restriction on the type of sights used. A specific muzzleloader HUNT restricts you to iron sights unless you have an eyesight issue that precludes the use of iron sights. You have to get a doctor's note and approval to use optics and no magnification is allowed in that circumstance.
    Thanks myfriend for the info. Sounds right to the regs also.

    I'll be looking at the pigs through the scope.
    Drypowder


    I have wondered at times what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the US Congress.
    - Ronald Reagan -

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 20, 2012
    Location
    Acton, Ca
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default

    Thats all some good info. Im new to this as well and enjoyed all the info.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. NRA Joins Forces With National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association
    By spectr17 in forum Traditional Muzzleloaders
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-24-2009, 05:20 PM
  2. NRA Joins Forces With National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association
    By spectr17 in forum Inline Muzzleloaders
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-24-2009, 05:19 PM
  3. 2008 U.S. International Muzzle-Loading Team Selected
    By spectr17 in forum Gun Shoots, Shooting Competitions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2008, 10:38 PM
  4. WTB,double barrel muzzle loading shotgun
    By passgas55 in forum Traditional Muzzleloaders
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-12-2004, 06:52 PM
  5. Do you belong to a Muzzle Loading Gun Club?
    By FTTPOW in forum Inline Muzzleloaders
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-23-2002, 07:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts