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View Poll Results: How do you feel about homosexuals in general.

Voters
52. You may not vote on this poll
  • I couldn't care less, I don't think anything different of them, born that way and who cares

    16 30.77%
  • I strongly agree with statement #1

    2 3.85%
  • I mostly agree with statement #1

    3 5.77%
  • I kind of agree with statement #1

    0 0%
  • I don't have any negative feelings toward them, but I just don't like the idea

    10 19.23%
  • I don't have anything nice to say about them but it's their life who am I to judge

    11 21.15%
  • I kind of agree with statement # 10

    0 0%
  • I mostly agree with statement #10

    3 5.77%
  • I strongly agree with statement #10

    2 3.85%
  • They are an abomination (no not Obama-nation), and should be purged from the Earth!

    5 9.62%
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Thread: HOT POLL!!!! Homosexuals....what does the JHO community think?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riodog View Post
    With all due respect and I mean that sincerely, for ALL of my hunting, shooting, fishing brothern outdoors persons,,,, I request that you keep all of your behavior whether hetro or homo to yourselves while in my presence. Every one of you is always welcome in my home or camp at any time. I will not preach nor force my preferences down your throat but by the same token I will not allow myself to be subjected or coerced to the alternative life styles of the few however much noise they may make.

    To be open and above aboard with you all,,I'll say that I am banned from Calguns website because I won't bow to their wishes that I must kiss-ass, be politically correct and not express my opinion of something that- I believe- is so abhorrently wrong -> prostitute my beliefs, just to garner a minor percentage of the voting public.

    You may live your life as you see fit and I'll do the same. If you try and shove your preferences down my throat (bad pun) then I'll see you at noon in the middle of the street with your sixgun and you better be at the top of your game.
    Until this topic came up I was a supporter of Calguns even though that website was made up of basically a bunch of 'newbees' to the firearms scene. I guess I'm tryin to say that some things should just be left in the closet. IMHO.

    Rio
    What he said ^

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    1. There is absolutely no way that sexual orientation is a choice. I can't choose to be attracted to a hot woman. Sorry, there is no choice there. Actions you can control, attraction you cannot.

    2. Does gay marriage effect anyone except homosexuals wanting to get married? Why would anyone care if homosexuals got married? It doesn't effect my wife and I. It only effects my daughters if they turn out to be homosexual.

    3.As long as my daughters marry people who treat them well, and they are happy, I am good. But I'm not paying for any wedding. That is a tradition that is way out of date.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by coothunter View Post
    1. There is absolutely no way that sexual orientation is a choice. I can't choose to be attracted to a hot woman. Sorry, there is no choice there. Actions you can control, attraction you cannot.

    2. Does gay marriage effect anyone except homosexuals wanting to get married? Why would anyone care if homosexuals got married? It doesn't effect my wife and I. It only effects my daughters if they turn out to be homosexual.

    3.As long as my daughters marry people who treat them well, and they are happy, I am good. But I'm not paying for any wedding. That is a tradition that is way out of date.
    It seems like there allot of people here that have expressed dis-concern about their children being homosexual. Think about it from this perspective. Hunting and fishing is not only a a great pass time and hobble for some but a way of life for most. This usually makes it a very important part of a sportsman's life, if not the whole family. In turn, most sportsman/women want to pass on that legacy to there descendants, so they to can have the same experiences and memories.

    Is this important to you? If it is, how do you expect to do this if your child is homosexual and cannot conceive children of their own? You can forget about taking little JR out to your favorite fishing hole for his first catch, or little Susie to shoot her first doe. For those of you saying, "well i'm not concerned about having a blood line relative to share these times with. My son or daughter can just adopt and i will share those times with them. That's great, and i'm glad you would consider this option. My grandfather adopted 3 children including my father. The times we have spent together are priceless. However, its not as easy to adopt as you think. Sometimes the process can take years before you are even considered, if you ever are. Unfortunately, homosexuals have even a harder time. That's why you see allot of celebrities importing children. So think about this before your willing to accept this alternative lifestyle that your children CHOOSE to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riodog View Post
    With all due respect and I mean that sincerely, for ALL of my hunting, shooting, fishing brothern outdoors persons,,,, I request that you keep all of your behavior whether hetro or homo to yourselves while in my presence. Every one of you is always welcome in my home or camp at any time. I will not preach nor force my preferences down your throat but by the same token I will not allow myself to be subjected or coerced to the alternative life styles of the few however much noise they may make.

    To be open and above aboard with you all,,I'll say that I am banned from Calguns website because I won't bow to their wishes that I must kiss-ass, be politically correct and not express my opinion of something that- I believe- is so abhorrently wrong -> prostitute my beliefs, just to garner a minor percentage of the voting public.

    You may live your life as you see fit and I'll do the same. If you try and shove your preferences down my throat (bad pun) then I'll see you at noon in the middle of the street with your sixgun and you better be at the top of your game.
    Until this topic came up I was a supporter of Calguns even though that website was made up of basically a bunch of 'newbees' to the firearms scene. I guess I'm tryin to say that some things should just be left in the closet. IMHO.

    Rio
    In a perfect world this would be the case however, the REAL WORLD and the gay agenda is forcing this down our collective throats via the media. It is an agenda that they basically set in the late 1980s, in a book called After the Ball,[12] where they laid out a six-point plan for how they could transform the beliefs of ordinary Americans with regard to homosexual behavior in a decade-long time frame.... They admit it privately, but they will not say that publicly. In their private publications, homosexual activists make it very clear that there is an agenda. The six-point agenda that they laid out in 1989 was explicit:
    1. Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible
    2. Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers
    3. Give homosexual protectors a just cause
    4. Make gays look good
    5. Make the victimizers look bad
    6. Get funds from corporate America
    Say and think what you will but the campaign rages on around us daily. You cannot escape it. It is relentless and focuses on our children. TV shows have furthered this agenda (via programs like Will & Grace...their will, our grace) to make the mainstream look ignorant and absurd to our kids. So while i would love to fill the closet again, the campaign is always in your face...and in the face of your children who are being influenced by it. And not everyone is born gay as some would have us believe...where do you think the term "bicurious" comes from. First they make you question your sexuality, then they urge to to "compare" and many young people think it's cooler to be gay or view it as a way of getting attention. My daughter's gay awakening occured after dating guys for years (and going back for more dick later) and her girlfriend looks like a guy. I'm not convinced she hasn't been brainwashed. I wonder about her biological father's family (he split when she was concieved) and what influences may be "in the genes" vs social pressure. it is a troubling issue. My daughter used to be interested in hunting...now she is pro wolf reintroduction and thinks hunters are backwards. It is heartbreaking.
    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.


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    Bruce i cant believe how much we have in common, don't ask i will tell you at fools camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willscarlet View Post
    They're not BORN that way. God calls it abomanation and sin. Leviticus 20:13.
    I believe that some are born that way. It's called "Born in sin" as we all are. Just because something is natural it doesn't make it right. The Bible speaks often about the "natural man" and none of it is good. We are ALL born with sinful desires and being born that way is no justification. As far as opinions go, none of them really matter because there is only one Judge and I'm more concerned about what He thinks. And just because you don't believe the Word of God doesn't make it void. But that's your choice and I'm not going to try and argue someone into salvation. I'll talk all day with someone about the bible IF they are asking honest questions and are honestly seeking answers. But I have no time for loaded questions that are designed to create debate and strife.
    ps.
    People are always screaming that Christians are forcing their views down their throats.
    But isn't that what the gay activist' are doing ? They say "stay out of our bedroom" but yet they are taking their bedroom to our little children's classroom.
    Last edited by Glass eye; 03-07-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: ps

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    Quote Originally Posted by willscarlet View Post
    They're not BORN that way. God calls it abomanation and sin. Leviticus 20:13.
    THUMBS UP!!
    I love my country-but fear my government!!

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    Natural Law

    People have a basic, ethical intuition that certain behaviors are wrong because they are unnatural.


    Sent from my iPhone/Tapatalk

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    I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, but I do care that a deviant sub culture is trying to usurp our standard of living that has been the standard for over 5000 years. Giving special treatment or privledges to those who live on the fringe is not right...
    Stop Global Whining...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrog 31581 View Post
    Converserly, just because you don't think something is wrong doesn't change the fact that it is. Your or mine approval or disapproval of something doesn't do a thing to change the underlying reality as to whether something is right or wrong. If something is wrong, its wrong whether you or I think it should be or not.
    Everybody who lives in Florida is a liberal, Obama-loving, stuck-up cityslicker. I am right, and regardless of whether or not you think I'm wrong, I'm still right just because I know.
    Last edited by rlewish; 05-01-2012 at 07:15 PM.

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    rlewish, you're statement proves my point. Let's assume you believe the statement you just made (and I don't believe you do, but just for the sake of argument let's assume you do). Your statement is either correct or its wrong. It can't be both. The objective truth or falsity of your statement exists externally and beyond your perception of the answer. If its true that every in Florida is whatever, that's the truth whether you or I accept it or not. Conversely, if everyone in Florida is not whatever, your statement false whether you or I perceive its falshood or not. Objective truth exists independant of subjective perception.

    In the same way, either homosexuality is wrong or homosexuality is ok. It cannot be both. No matter how convinced a person might be as to one answer or the other, one answer is the right answer and the other answer is the wrong answer. Right and wrong in this context are mutually exclusive.

    I think the point of your statement was to lampoon my assurance that I am right on the issue. My response is that I am not right because "I just know." I'm right because I know what God says about the issue. God's opinion exists above and beyond my own feelings on the issue. God is the standard of right and wrong. Things are right or wrong because He finds him so. Morality doesn't exist as a metaphysical force independant of Him. If you want to know what is right and wrong, He is the gold standard.

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    If anyone thinks homosexuals are born that way, why can't I be born hating them?


    I hate queers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckkillerclyde View Post
    If anyone thinks homosexuals are born that way, why can't I be born hating them?


    I hate queers.
    Well, to answer your question in a technical fashion, you can't be born hating them because you would have to learn to hate them. If you had no contact or knowledge of gays in any way you would not have that opportunity to develop any feeling for them. And what good does it do to hate them, and why? Is your life impacted by gay people in any way? Or is it that the idea of two men tongue kissing just makes you ill. A long time ago I felt the same way when I saw that on TV. I feel this goes to prove the point that one can not make a decision to be attracted to men instead of women. In fact all of the comments made in this thread that claim that it is a learned behavior, or a choice come from observation, not experience. There has never been one person I have ever talked to or read about that claimed to be straight before becoming gay. There have been women who were known to be straight before taking interest in the fairer sex, and I personally believe that many women have the capability to be attracted to other women. As the world's biggest fan of the female form I understand this. The human female is God's greatest work of art, and that is coming from an agnostic. The thought of kissing another man disgusts me, but I don't really care if somebody else does it and I can't understand why it makes people so upset. If you don't like it, don't do it. Why fill yourself with negative and hateful feelings because of somebody else's sexuality. I don't like prius drivers but I don't let it bother me, and they impact my life on a daily basis.

    Even if you take the purely religious standpoint that it offends God (yes, the all loving, all forgiving, all knowing creator of said gay people, who communicates only through a handful of people from thousands of years ago) didn't his only begotten son teach to not judge, to not hate, to trust in God, as in trust that if he is so angered and appalled by homosexuals that HE will deal with them on judgement day. Consider Mary Magdalen, the whore who Jesus washed the feat of. Is there a level of sin that prostitution holds which is in some way less offensive than being homosexual? I think his actions (which I personally don't believe happened) speak for the unconditional love which he represents, despite the vengeful vanity which is often represented by modern teachings. That is just another twisting of his word into the contradicting values and teachings of the Cristian churches. He created us, loves us unconditionally, but will damn you to hell for eternity if you don't worship him in the fashion deemed fit by those who claim to be the authority.

    Bullfrog: Your definition of right or wrong is a reference to what God thinks, or more accurately what you think God thinks. I think God thinks something different. So your statement that you know what God thinks is EXACTLY the same as saying "I know because I know". You have perceived a thought because of something you have been told by somebody who was told by somebody else. NOBODY HAS TALKED TO GOD!!!!! period. I know that it makes people all warm and fuzzy inside to think that they talk to God, and that they FULLY believe that what they read, or hear, or talk about, or say to God in their prayers is the absolute truth, it is just a belief based on something they heard, or thought they witnessed. Muslims have the same conviction, as do Hindu's, Buddhists, and every other religion out there. They believe what they believe as wholeheartedly as you do, and would discredit your beliefs the same way you would discredit theirs. Most of the morality viewpoints in religion are based on the fear of the afterlife. Well guess what, NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THE AFTERLIFE IS. Anybody that does is dead, and they aint talking. I studied the bible for my entire childhood into my twenties. What I found was that Jesus never really imposed a morality other than treating people with love and kindness. Somehow over time that was twisted into a guideline of right and wrong behavior, right behavior granting admission to paradise with 72 virgins, oh wait wrong religion, right behavior grants access to heaven which is kind of nondescript, and the wrong behavior gives you eternity in fiery suffering to show you how loving our father is. It just doesn't make any sense, and Jesus never said it. And God does not have a monopoly on morality. It does exist with out him. But I do respect your right to believe that, just as I respect the rights of anybody to be who or what they are including a homosexual. Being able to live with your lover as a legally acknowledged couple is a basic right. In the world we live in legal status has a huge bearing on our lives. It's what dictates the rules by which we live, and die. It is not special treatment to give somebody the legal right to be an heir, a dependent, a partner, a spouse. It is the same set of rights that everybody else has available to them. And those rights don't impede or damage any other rights that straight people have. It is discrimination plain and simple. All of the people who bemoan the breaking of the sanctity of marriage by allowing gays to partake in the bond never have one word to say about the 50% divorce rate that nullifies the so called "till death do we part" sacrament. Nor do they see a problem with a straight wedding taking place outside of the confines and beliefs of their own religion. A so called sacrament "given to us" by God should not be broken by divorce, or by administration of a non priestly entity. How come all the anti-gay mouth pieces don't stand up for "what God thinks" when families with children are broken apart because Mom and Dad don't like each other anymore after ten years of grinding it out? I think it's because the thought of mom and dad doing anything sexual doesn't repulse them the way it does when they think of gay people doing something they themselves could never make the CHOICE to do.
    Fluently vocalizing from my rectum


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugaloo View Post
    Well, to answer your question in a technical fashion, you can't be born hating them because you would have to learn to hate them. If you had no contact or knowledge of gays in any way you would not have that opportunity to develop any feeling for them. And what good does it do to hate them, and why? Is your life impacted by gay people in any way? Or is it that the idea of two men tongue kissing just makes you ill. A long time ago I felt the same way when I saw that on TV. I feel this goes to prove the point that one can not make a decision to be attracted to men instead of women. In fact all of the comments made in this thread that claim that it is a learned behavior, or a choice come from observation, not experience. There has never been one person I have ever talked to or read about that claimed to be straight before becoming gay. There have been women who were known to be straight before taking interest in the fairer sex, and I personally believe that many women have the capability to be attracted to other women. As the world's biggest fan of the female form I understand this. The human female is God's greatest work of art, and that is coming from an agnostic. The thought of kissing another man disgusts me, but I don't really care if somebody else does it and I can't understand why it makes people so upset. If you don't like it, don't do it. Why fill yourself with negative and hateful feelings because of somebody else's sexuality. I don't like prius drivers but I don't let it bother me, and they impact my life on a daily basis.

    Even if you take the purely religious standpoint that it offends God (yes, the all loving, all forgiving, all knowing creator of said gay people, who communicates only through a handful of people from thousands of years ago) didn't his only begotten son teach to not judge, to not hate, to trust in God, as in trust that if he is so angered and appalled by homosexuals that HE will deal with them on judgement day. Consider Mary Magdalen, the whore who Jesus washed the feat of. Is there a level of sin that prostitution holds which is in some way less offensive than being homosexual? I think his actions (which I personally don't believe happened) speak for the unconditional love which he represents, despite the vengeful vanity which is often represented by modern teachings. That is just another twisting of his word into the contradicting values and teachings of the Cristian churches. He created us, loves us unconditionally, but will damn you to hell for eternity if you don't worship him in the fashion deemed fit by those who claim to be the authority.

    Bullfrog: Your definition of right or wrong is a reference to what God thinks, or more accurately what you think God thinks. I think God thinks something different. So your statement that you know what God thinks is EXACTLY the same as saying "I know because I know". You have perceived a thought because of something you have been told by somebody who was told by somebody else. NOBODY HAS TALKED TO GOD!!!!! period. I know that it makes people all warm and fuzzy inside to think that they talk to God, and that they FULLY believe that what they read, or hear, or talk about, or say to God in their prayers is the absolute truth, it is just a belief based on something they heard, or thought they witnessed. Muslims have the same conviction, as do Hindu's, Buddhists, and every other religion out there. They believe what they believe as wholeheartedly as you do, and would discredit your beliefs the same way you would discredit theirs. Most of the morality viewpoints in religion are based on the fear of the afterlife. Well guess what, NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THE AFTERLIFE IS. Anybody that does is dead, and they aint talking. I studied the bible for my entire childhood into my twenties. What I found was that Jesus never really imposed a morality other than treating people with love and kindness. Somehow over time that was twisted into a guideline of right and wrong behavior, right behavior granting admission to paradise with 72 virgins, oh wait wrong religion, right behavior grants access to heaven which is kind of nondescript, and the wrong behavior gives you eternity in fiery suffering to show you how loving our father is. It just doesn't make any sense, and Jesus never said it. And God does not have a monopoly on morality. It does exist with out him. But I do respect your right to believe that, just as I respect the rights of anybody to be who or what they are including a homosexual. Being able to live with your lover as a legally acknowledged couple is a basic right. In the world we live in legal status has a huge bearing on our lives. It's what dictates the rules by which we live, and die. It is not special treatment to give somebody the legal right to be an heir, a dependent, a partner, a spouse. It is the same set of rights that everybody else has available to them. And those rights don't impede or damage any other rights that straight people have. It is discrimination plain and simple. All of the people who bemoan the breaking of the sanctity of marriage by allowing gays to partake in the bond never have one word to say about the 50% divorce rate that nullifies the so called "till death do we part" sacrament. Nor do they see a problem with a straight wedding taking place outside of the confines and beliefs of their own religion. A so called sacrament "given to us" by God should not be broken by divorce, or by administration of a non priestly entity. How come all the anti-gay mouth pieces don't stand up for "what God thinks" when families with children are broken apart because Mom and Dad don't like each other anymore after ten years of grinding it out? I think it's because the thought of mom and dad doing anything sexual doesn't repulse them the way it does when they think of gay people doing something they themselves could never make the CHOICE to do.

    I don't believe in god so that rules that one out.

    I have never met a pedophile. I don't know of anyone who has been affected by a pedophile. I hate pedophiles.



    ##################s are ##################s to get attention. It is as simple as that.

    ##################s affect me in these ways;


    Income taxes will be increased to make up for the marriage tax benefits given to homosexual couples and to pay for the social costs resulting from the increase in illegitimacy. We provide financial benefits to married couples because they produce and care for children. Why should homosexual couples get the same benefits as men and women raising children? Moreover, providing financial incentives for homosexual unions would be doubly counterproductive. First, taxpayers would be subsidizing, and thus encouraging destructive behavior. Second, we then would pay for the results of that behavior in the form of increased medical and social costs.

    Social security taxes will be increased (or benefits decreased) in order to pay survivor support benefits to homosexual “widows” and “widowers.”

    Medical insurance premiums will rise to offset the higher health care costs associated with homosexual behavior (i.e., AIDS, colon cancer, hepatitis and other diseases) which will likely increase if we approve same-sex marriage. Medical premiums would rise further if insurance companies are mandated to cover fertility treatments for lesbian couples (there’s sure to be some judge somewhere to order that!).

    Employee benefits will be reduced as employers are mandated to spread their limited benefit dollars to include homosexual partners. Limited benefit dollars given to homosexuals must come from somewhere; indeed, they are taken away from everyone else—married couples raising children.

    Homosexual couples will be given legal preference to adoptdue to their inability to procreate. In other words, homosexuals will not be granted equal rights but super rights—rights that will supersede your rights as a citizen. Tragically, children will be treated as trophies that, in effect, validate homosexual relationships.

    Your children will be indoctrinated, with or without your consent, to accept homosexual behavior and same-sex marriage as the moral and social equivalent of heterosexual behavior and marriage (we are seeing this in our public schools already, especially in California and Massachusetts).

    Your place of worship will be forced to hire homosexuals and play by new draconian rules that impose homosexuality. A Catholic adoption charity recently closed its doors in Massachusetts rather than offer children to homosexual couples as the state mandated. This new rule was the direct result of government-backed same-sex marriage. Tolerance will become a one-way street—you need to tolerate and even advance homosexuality, but homosexual activists don’t need to tolerate your views.

    Free speech and religion rights will be curtailed as opposition to homosexuality is criminalized as “hate speech” (as is now the case in Canada and Sweden). This should wake up religious people who erroneously believe they ought not to be involved in politics. Politics affects your ability to practice your religion! Once same-sex marriage is approved, it will not be long before you will be fined or imprisoned for expressing any opposition to homosexuality. People with religious moral convictions will be considered worse than racists.

    Your government and its intrusive ways will grow as a result of the changes we have just reviewed. That’s another reason why liberals love same-sex marriage—it means more big government. They will call for more government programs to fix the mess caused by the destruction of the family and more government regulation to ensure that their new morality of political correctness is imposed on you, your children, and your place of worship.


    I will never concede to ##################s or ################## supports like you.

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    don't know why that came in bold print and I didn't realize that toggaf would be edited.

    I hate queers and I hate queer supporters. If that includes any of you, so be it.

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    (laughing)
    Fluently vocalizing from my rectum


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugaloo View Post
    (laughing)
    Fugaloo; Do you believe in http://www.nambla.org/

    A
    re you a member there?




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    Confucius say he who argue with fool become fool
    Fluently vocalizing from my rectum


    I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugaloo View Post
    Confucius say he who argue with fool become fool
    Often it is better to be thought a fool.

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    Bullfrog: Your definition of right or wrong is a reference to what God thinks, or more accurately what you think God thinks. I think God thinks something different. So your statement that you know what God thinks is EXACTLY the same as saying "I know because I know". You have perceived a thought because of something you have been told by somebody who was told by somebody else. NOBODY HAS TALKED TO GOD!!!!! period. I know that it makes people all warm and fuzzy inside to think that they talk to God, and that they FULLY believe that what they read, or hear, or talk about, or say to God in their prayers is the absolute truth, it is just a belief based on something they heard, or thought they witnessed. Muslims have the same conviction, as do Hindu's, Buddhists, and every other religion out there. They believe what they believe as wholeheartedly as you do, and would discredit your beliefs the same way you would discredit theirs. Most of the morality viewpoints in religion are based on the fear of the afterlife. Well guess what, NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA WHAT THE AFTERLIFE IS. Anybody that does is dead, and they aint talking. I studied the bible for my entire childhood into my twenties. What I found was that Jesus never really imposed a morality other than treating people with love and kindness. Somehow over time that was twisted into a guideline of right and wrong behavior, right behavior granting admission to paradise with 72 virgins, oh wait wrong religion, right behavior grants access to heaven which is kind of nondescript, and the wrong behavior gives you eternity in fiery suffering to show you how loving our father is. It just doesn't make any sense, and Jesus never said it. And God does not have a monopoly on morality. It does exist with out him. But I do respect your right to believe that, just as I respect the rights of anybody to be who or what they are including a homosexual. Being able to live with your lover as a legally acknowledged couple is a basic right. In the world we live in legal status has a huge bearing on our lives. It's what dictates the rules by which we live, and die. It is not special treatment to give somebody the legal right to be an heir, a dependent, a partner, a spouse. It is the same set of rights that everybody else has available to them. And those rights don't impede or damage any other rights that straight people have. It is discrimination plain and simple. All of the people who bemoan the breaking of the sanctity of marriage by allowing gays to partake in the bond never have one word to say about the 50% divorce rate that nullifies the so called "till death do we part" sacrament. Nor do they see a problem with a straight wedding taking place outside of the confines and beliefs of their own religion. A so called sacrament "given to us" by God should not be broken by divorce, or by administration of a non priestly entity. How come all the anti-gay mouth pieces don't stand up for "what God thinks" when families with children are broken apart because Mom and Dad don't like each other anymore after ten years of grinding it out? I think it's because the thought of mom and dad doing anything sexual doesn't repulse them the way it does when they think of gay people doing something they themselves could never make the CHOICE to do.
    Fuge,
    The reason I don't consider it a "I know just because that's what I think" argument is because I believe the Bible to be 100% historically accurate and accurate reproductions of God's own words. I do believe God has spoken to humanity. Even today "He's not far from each one of us" (Acts 17:27). He's there to be found for those that seek Him. Wherefore my position only becomes one of "I know just because that's what I think" if I do not actually believe God said homsexuality is wrong. Furthermore, if the Bible isn't true, then my entire basis for believing homosexuality is wrong is invalid, as my view is based entirely on what the Bible says about it. Whether I personally find it revolting or not is neither here nor there.

    You are right that there is a general breakdown of the family that goes beyond the homosexuality issue. Jesus' teachings on divorce are stark. He said that except in the case of adultery, someone who divorces and remarries is actually themselves committing adultery. That's a harsh teaching. Yet its there to be read just like God's admonishment of homosexuality. Just because a court may declare someone divorced doesn't mean God does. There's no doubt that there's a lot of hypocrisy out there. Some of the high divorce rate out there, even among professed Bible believers, is due to hypocrisy on the issue. Other times is simply a function of the wider brokeness of the human condition. Sometimes divorce is thrust upon people against their will because of the other spouse, which has all sorts of bad consequences that effect peoples lives in all sorts of bad ways. But regardless, the hypocrisy of some doesn't invalidate the truth of God's word.

    One other thing, I noticed that you stated that you perceived that the "anti" people in this thread were all saying homosexuality is a choice. I want to reiterate my position that I believe it is neither innate or a "choice," but a product of outside factors that impress themselves on a person during their sexual development in their child and teenage years. I think anyone has the capacity to become gay if they are exposed to certain variables while they are developing in their pre-teenage and teenage years.

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