I couldn't care less, I don't think anything different of them, born that way and who cares
I strongly agree with statement #1
I mostly agree with statement #1
I kind of agree with statement #1
I don't have any negative feelings toward them, but I just don't like the idea
I don't have anything nice to say about them but it's their life who am I to judge
I kind of agree with statement # 10
I mostly agree with statement #10
I strongly agree with statement #10
They are an abomination (no not Obama-nation), and should be purged from the Earth!
HOT POLL!!!! Homosexuals....what does the JHO community think?
Here is another dumb question I wonder about the general make up of our group. I won't reveal my personal feelings, and the poll is anonomous so speak freely through your voting. I know some will say this is not a good thing to associate hunting with, but I am very curious to know how most of the guys here feel. It is a natural right to have an opinion and we should be able to freely express it, especially among peers. Right peers?
Last edited by Fugaloo; 01-06-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Fluently vocalizing from my rectum
I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!
Fugaloo Foo-gah-loo
Wow, I think your asking for trouble. I'm not even touching this one.
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All is for nothing, if not for GOD.....
"Now then, take your weapons, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me"
No, I'm quite sure I'm demanding trouble...it's one of those daysOriginally Posted by henmar77
Fluently vocalizing from my rectum
I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!
Fugaloo Foo-gah-loo
Lol, good for you.
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All is for nothing, if not for GOD.....
"Now then, take your weapons, your quiver and your bow, and go out to the field and hunt game for me"
They're not BORN that way. God calls it abomanation and sin. Leviticus 20:13.
Homosexuals are people, so you can't lump them altogether any more than you can say all Okies are dumb or all Latinos are lazy. Those who parade down Main St. half naked talking about "gay rights" are sick. Those who quietly live their lives without pushing their lifestyle on others don't bother me in the least. I know several openly gay people, some of which I call my friend. Having said that, I agree with willscarlet.
It is kinda like drunks. I don't agree with the lifestyle of folks who abuse alcohol or drugs. However, if someone wants to do that in their home, it is really none of my business. When the drunk gets behind the wheel, that bothers me.
Last edited by Common Sense; 01-06-2012 at 09:10 PM.
Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine
I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS
I more believe that gay people don't choose to be gay a lot more then I believe in your bible. Don't get me wrong I KNOW there is a God, I just don't believe that the bible is the WORD OF GOD more then a way to better life our lives. To just think someone chooses to be such an outcast in society would be like a black man our woman choosing to be a slave. IMO
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I don't agree with you, but I am open-minded enough to realize I am not always right, so it is possible that you are correct.
But gays that are not only "out of the closet", but pushing their lifestyles on others; were not born that way.
Just like alcoholism --- some folks say it is a choice while others say it is a disease. Even though the elite say alcoholism is a disease, we still jail folks for drunk driving.
Society in any state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil. T. Paine
I am old enough to remember when this really was the land of the free. CS
They may not be able to choose the desire - ask Sandusky how desires are just "there" - but they can choose the action. This is where Sandusky didn't handle things correctly. I don't care what the culture says, it is wrong.
That being said, it is wrong to treat ANYONE poorly because you disagree with them on some issue or other. The homosexual must be treated correctly and honorably, and that can be handled without agreeing with the action.
Well put!
Have fun out there.
I don't believe people are born gay. I don't think they "choose" to be gay in the same way someone chooses what to eat for dinner. I believe a person becomes or developes homosexuality due to what they are exposed to in their developmental years. I haven't known many gay men well, but I've known several lesbians well enough to know that all of the ones I knew didn't start out that way but had bad experiences with men, mostly through sexual abuse (I know one lesbian who became so because of a bad consentual affair she had with a man). My wife has known several gay men well and they were all the products of molestation in their child or teenage years.
Another factor these days is that its trendy to experiment with homosexuality in middle and high school. When I was in school 15 years ago it was unheard of to have gay students. There were always one or two rumored to be that way but it wasn't common. Today its not unusual for 10-20% of students to experiement with homosexuality (that's an eyeball estimate based on what educators tell me who see it in the classroom every day). You can thank the liberal control of education and the media for this trend.
As far as how to treat homosexuals, I think its wrong to mistreat them in every day matters but I also think its wrong to condone the behavior. Today we incorrectly define tolerance the same way as we define acceptance. I can tolerate homosexual behavior but I will not condone or accept it. I most certainly will not agree to sanction it through allowing them to marry or adopt.
As long as they leave me and mine alone, and what I mean by that is as long as they don't "stick it in my face", so to speak, I could care less what they do. As long as they conduct themselves as a proper member of society who cares what they do in the bedroom.
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you. -- Gen.9:3
How do you know ? do you know any one friends /family that are gay ?
He didn't say that he knows. He said God said it was sin.
When did HE heart God speak?
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@cjack very well said
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Let me put it another way. How would you feel if your son or daughter or grand son or daughter were gay ? you have watched them grow from birth healthy and strong, they have led a normal life up to say 18 years old and then you find out they are gay. People that are not in this situation do not have a clue what they are talking about when they say "they are not born that way" so before you start talking about sin/bible/God/crap ask yourself how you would feel if your son or daughter were gay.
I would be sad the same way I would be sad if my daughter or son got caught up in an affair with a married person or became a Muslim and joined al-Qaeda. I wouldn't stop loving them but that doesn't change the fact that they are wrong. I would also wonder what was going on in their life that they kept from me that brought them to that point.
So now being Muslim is Wrong? I guess being Mormon or lets so Southern Baptist must be wrong as well. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it WRONG. Sad that even today people can be so shallow.
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anybody need any refills?
IMHO, it does not matter what someones sexual choices are as long as it does not effect anyone else. Being gay is a choice and should not be mandated by the courts. This entire issue is about effecting mandates and changes based on personal choices. Why should all of us be forced to change to fit the few who petition th courts. The law is clear and those who want exemptions or special treatment are those who today cry out the most. The system has worked well for thousands of years yet today a very few want to make changes that will impact everyone else who is normal...
Stop Global Whining...
Of course it is silly. But that's another topic. :)So now being Muslim is Wrong?
I just bring it up to illustrate that I can still love my child and disaprove of what my child might do. In fact, it would be because I love my child that I would be sad to see my child become gay, a Muslim, ect., because those ways lead to destruction.
Converserly, just because you don't think something is wrong doesn't change the fact that it is. Your or mine approval or disapproval of something doesn't do a thing to change the underlying reality as to whether something is right or wrong. If something is wrong, its wrong whether you or I think it should be or not.Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it WRONG.
Okay...here's one for you. You're sitting in your livingroom watching television and your 20-something daughter shows up with her "girlfriend" and excitedly tells you the "girlfriend" just proposed. She sticks a nice big engagement ring under your nose and tells you they are getting married. The "girlfriend" is sorta the "guy" in the relationship (shaved head, butch, far less refined, etc) so you are expected to pay for the wedding. You love your daughter deeply, you believe marriage is strictly between a man and a woman. What do you do?
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
It seems that the entire weight of the "God doesn't approve" argument hinges on the fact that homosexuality is a choice. Other wise, how could God not approve if he made them that way, right? As a recovered Catholic myself, I understand how important it must be to some people to believe that God did not make them gay. And of course there are people who appear to choose to be homosexual. Some people live a straight life for decades only to come out after the children are through college and on their own. Others just seem to make the switch one day. I have heard Anne Heche used as an example before. One day she's into guys, the next day she's Mrs. Degeneres. (Ellen) When that fizzled out she was back to being into guys. See she chose to be a homosexual, and then chose not to be. I think she is who she is. Nobody could choose to become anything other than what they are. For her, this includes being able to play both sides. I have never chosen to find a girl attractive, it just happens. I have certainly chosen to look past some imperfections, but having a penis is not something i could choose to overlook. The only people who want to believe (and they really, really do) it is a choice are the ones who disapprove, and find it somehow offensive to their belief in God. I find these are more the religious types who think hell is waiting for anybody who doesn't follow a list of God's rules or live God's approved lifestyle. I respect the devotion but I think it is totally misguided. Ted Haggard was one of these people, but he went to Gay rehab and is all better now.
This is not a new phenomenon, nor is something that is exclusive to one kind of people, or from one area. Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of our species. It is prevalent in every part of the world, and has been documented in almost every ancient civilization. People even "chose" to be gay when it was considered a capitol offense. Even when the threat of death came with the choice to indulge in homosexual activities, people would risk their lives to be what they were. I couldn't choose the consequence of kissing another dude, let alone dying for it. Nor have I ever met anybody that could choose their own sexuality. The thought alone seems comical that somebody could just completely rewire themselves by choice. It's like saying you are heterosexual by choice, there's just nothing to choose, I like girls....I really like girls....every inch of them from the top to the bottom. I could do with about 70% less talking from girls but I still like girls. There's just no decision I could make to change that.
"Keep it out of my face and I'll look the other way!" "Don't call the bond I have with my wife the same thing you have with your lover"
Don't be gay in public. You can't get married, it would soil the good name of marriage, and would desecrate the bond my wife and I have!
God has a monopoly on marriage. Matrimony is purely a religious ceremony and only counts in the eyes of God. (although it also counts in the eyes of the state, the federal government, the IRS, the insurance companies, hospitals, your place of employment, and pretty much any other situation where your finances or value of estate is considered) By letting gay people get married, the sacred bond between my wife and I is null and void. It's as if every reason you married your wife is destroyed by the fact that two gay men love each other also. Marriage is for one man and one woman: GOD HIMSELF SAYS SO!! Somebody heard him say that I think, or spoke it to somebody who wrote it down two thousand years ago, I don't know who but I believe it.
As for casting an opinion on whether it is wrong to be gay or not; 2 + 3 = 4 is wrong. turn your wheel left to go right is wrong. drinking gasoline as an energy drink is wrong. shooting an animal out of season is wrong. BEING homosexual is neither right or wrong, it just is what it is. Some guys don't like it, those guys don't get to make up some universal truth that wanting to be with other dudes is wrong. However for me, wanting another man is wrong. Not because other people don't approve, but because I am not gay. Nor could anything persuede me to choose to be gay. In fact....How about everybody here who believes it is a choice tell me what you would need to make the choice to have sex with another man, AND enjoy it. What factors would go into that choice, and what is the reason you choose to be heterosexual the rest of the time.
Fluently vocalizing from my rectum
I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!
Fugaloo Foo-gah-loo
I would say "I love you, but I do not approve of this at all. It is wrong, and your mother and I will not accept this. We cannot stop you from doing it, but it will be without our approval or our blessing. We will always be here for you, we will never turn you away at our door. But we will not approve of this relationship because this relationship will destroy you in the end. What you do now is up to you."
That's the same answer I would give if she came home with a married man who she was having an affair with and who was going to leave his wife to marry my daughter, or if she came home as an unrepentant drug addict who didn't want help but instead wanted us to approve of her life style and help her buy drugs.
I would not pay for the wedding because to pay for it is to enable it. To enable it is to enable my daughter's own destruction. I wouldn't help her do it no more than I would help her go by crack from a drug dealer just because that is what she "really wanted." But I also know that just as I couldn't keep her from drugs once she's grown and on her own, I couldn't keep her from becoming a lesbian either. There comes a point and time when everyone makes their own decisions about God, life, morals, ect.. The most I can do is try to raise a child to make the right decisions and love them throught he bad decisions in the hope that they will change course before its too late.
Destroy? really? I mean, I understand if you are so opposed to the idea that you won't pay for the wedding, and you always make it known tht you don't like it. But how would being in a relationship with somebody you love destroy you. On drugs, involved with a married man, those are situations to avoid and I don't think anybody would argue with that. But being gay, although there are many challenges in life, will not destroy anybody. Nor is it something that does or should require parental approval. I'd actually love to hear from somebody who has been through this and what happened in their family. Do you think God is going to tear up her ticket to heaven, despite everything else she has done in her life.
Last edited by Fugaloo; 01-08-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Fluently vocalizing from my rectum
I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!
Fugaloo Foo-gah-loo
Yes he does. The sad fact is he is the one with that shallow mind that is living ungodly with all that hate in his heart. I'll pray for him.
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Whoa Budday, let's keep this debate non personal. Debate the facts, state the opinions, but don't let this turn into a forum for personal attacks.
Fluently vocalizing from my rectum
I love buying used guns.......No honey it's not a new gun, I've had that thing for years. look at all the marks on it!
Fugaloo Foo-gah-loo
What if there is a third option besides 1) making a choice and 2) being born that way? What if its something you are exposed to in your developmental years? That's something more than a choice, but something less than innate or genetic. I don't think the "God doesn't approve" argument rests entirely on it being a choice. We don't make a choice to be sinful in general. We are born with a sinful nature, yet God holds us accountable for it. But He also makes a way for us to be forgiven and set free of that sinful nature if we accept it. Where the rubber hits the road, where the "choice" comes in, is whether we accept His help or not. As that applies to homosexuality, someone may become gay because they were molested or otherwise exposed to homosexuality during puberty. It wasn't their choice to be molested or to have a homosexual agenda forced on them by someone else. But there is a choice to either surrender to homosexuality or to disagree with it and seek God's help to be free from it.
For example, I am going to use a hypothetical that comes from the life of someone I know. A beautiful girl grows up in a somewhat normal home and has normal relationships. When she hits puberty, she has normal sexual attraction to boys. No "diky" traits whatsoever. However, as a teenager she gets gang raped by several men. Afterwards, she becomes very sexually promicuous with guys but can't find the acceptance she is looking for. An older woman (twice her age) approaches her and offers friendship and acceptance. They spend time together. The older woman starts supplying the girl with drugs and alcohol. When the girl is high or drunk, the older woman has lesbian sex with her. The girl continues to date guys but starts experimenting in lesbian relationships as well. By the time she gets to her mid-20s, she had decided to live as an open lesbian and no longer pursues men.
I know that situation well. It happened to a woman who was dear to me. She became a lesbian not because she was born that way but because in her developmental years she was exposed to things that made her not trust men and furthemore was molested by a lesbian, but she interpreted that molestation as the acceptance she wanted. Other people, the men that raped her and the lesbian that molested her, made choices to use her for their own sexual desires irregardless as to what was best for her. Their sin scarred her of no fault of her on. It set her on a course that would make it easy for her to make decisions later to experiement with homosexuality and then make a choice to abide in it. Her final decisions to go into that lifestyle are hers and she will have to answer for them on her own. But the events that set her on that course didn't come from her genetics or her choice, it was the outside influence of other peoples' selfishness and sin.
I think you will be hard pressed to find someone who had a completely normal life and who decided to be gay when they turned 18 without any outside influence. As I stated previously, I've never known a lesbian that wasn't abused by a man one way or another before then started experimenting with lesbianism, and my wife has never known a gay man that wasn't molested by another man, not counting teenagers today who often experiment with homosexuality because it is trendy.
I think what you are exposed to right before and during puberty has more affect than anything else as to who you are attracted to.
I believe the only ticket anyone has to heaven is if their sins are forgiven through Christ's sacrifice on the cross. I could be the most upright man on earth but beause I still have sin the only ticket I have is straight to hell. In that regard I'm no different than a gay person, an adulterer, a murderer, ect. What God requires is a repentant heart and trust in Christ's sacrifice to cover one's sins. A reason that its such an issue to be gay is that if one is living that lifestyle unrepentantly, by definition they aren't sorry for their sins.
Now as far as why does God say its a sin, all I can do is speculate, the same way I can only speculate as to why God says "murder" is a sin. God's commandments are grouped into two groups, how you deal with God and how you deal with your fellow man. As it relates to the rules God puts on sex, they all seem to have a purpose to protect people from hurt that God doesn't want us to have. God made sex to be very powerful and bonding. It also reaches into the core of your body and your heart. The Bible says that sexual sins are the only sins that a person commits against his or her own body. I believe that there must be something about homosexuality that is inherently damaging to the body and the heart that God doesn't want people to partake in.
Edited to add:
To add to my last thoughts, God is very clear that when a man and a woman are married, the two become one. It is something supernatural that goes beyond a piece of paper or a legal status. It is something God created and instituted. Marriage does not exist independant of God. Therefore, He has the right to define it. It suggests to me that it is utterly impossible for people of the same sex to marry. It doesn't matter what the law says. Two men or two women can never be one flesh in the same way a man and a woman are. Its completely impossible. No amount of determination or disagreement will change that immovable law.
Last edited by Bullfrog 31581; 01-08-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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