The Secret War in Laos - 1962

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The Forum members who were there are:

Live2hunt
CA_Blacktail
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I was just a skinny kid who made maps for my CCT.

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Vientiane, Laos
Air Force hero's actions in Laos finally recognized after 42 years

By Larry Shaughnessy, CNN Pentagon Producer
September 3, 2010 5:10 p.m. EDT

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama will award the Medal of Honor, the military's highest award for bravery, to Air Force Chief Master Sgt. Richard Etchberger for his valor in saving the lives of three wounded comrades at a then-secret base in Laos in 1968, the White House announced Friday.
After Etchberger saved his fellow airmen, he was shot and killed by enemy fighters.
His heroics were kept a secret for years because the United States wasn't supposed to have troops in Laos during the Vietnam War. President Lyndon Johnson rejected a nomination for Etchberger to receive the Medal of Honor at the time because of the political trouble it could have stirred up.
Etchberger was part of a secret U.S. Air Force radar base in northern Laos, just 120 miles from Hanoi in North Vietnam. The base's purpose was to guide U.S. bomber crews on their missions over North Vietnam and parts of Laos that were under communist control.
Laos was officially neutral during the war, but its leaders were upset that North Vietnamese troops and Viet Cong guerrillas were moving through Laos to attack U.S. troops in South Vietnam. So the Lao government allowed construction of the U.S. radar site provided it was kept secret, according to Tom Keany, an Air Force B-52 squadron commander during the Vietnam War and currently a military historian with the School for Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University.
In March of 1968 North Vietnamese troops attacked the site, called Lima Site 85, with a force of 3,000 soldiers against fewer than a couple dozen U.S. airmen and about a thousand Laotian soldiers.
Eventually, American helicopters were sent in to evacuate the Air Force personnel, but by then eight Americans had been killed and several more wounded. It is considered by some the deadliest ground attack against Air Force troops in the entire Vietnam era.
According the White House, Etchberger deliberately exposed himself to enemy fire "in order to place his three surviving wounded comrades in the rescue slings permitting them to be airlifted to safety."
It took an act of Congress in 2008 for Etchberger to be reconsidered for a Medal of Honor so long after the war had ended. In most cases, the medal recommendation must be made within two years of the act of heroism for which it is to be awarded.
Rep. Earl Pomeroy of North Dakota helped push for the reconsideration. Etchberger was a native of Bismarck, North Dakota.
"Chief Etchberger was denied the Medal of Honor because he was serving his country on the wrong side of a geographic barrier," Pomeroy said in written statement. "Heroism knows no boundary. While it's regrettable that this medal is coming forty years after Mr. Etchberger's death, I am honored to be part of the effort that recognized this true hero."
The ceremony for Etchberger, which will include his three sons, is scheduled for September 21 at the White House.

[Live2hunt]

Before I was old enough to bare arms, the US had already withdrawn out of S. Vietnam and Laos. But my dad and uncles served the US CIA secret war as gurrilla fighters from 1960-1975. Dad and uncles that survived still talks about it and I tried documenting everything they mentioned to pass it along to my kids and grand kids.

The US withdrawn but the war did not end for the Hmong people. It was 1976 when our village made it out of the jungle to surrender to Pathet Lao and became civilians. Many Hmongs from other villages also did the same thing. Shortly after, Pathet Lao officials started nominating Hmong men who they think served the secret war with the US. Those men were taken to what Pathet Lao referred to as Re-education Camp. After finding out that those men never return from Re-education Camp, All Hmongs fled back to the jungle. Some found their way to Refugee Camp in Thailand. Some got trapped in the jungle and were referred to as Resistant Fighters, later called terrorists by the Pathet Lao government.

In the course of finding our way through the jungle to Refugee Camps in Thailand, we encountered many attacks by the enemy soldiers. I was barely old enough to bare arm at the time. They slap me with a paratrooper M2 Carbine with a folding stock. That little rifle slung over my shoulder and the pistol grip was touching the ground with the stock folded up. It was heavy lugging that thing with my food and water to survive the who knows how long of a journey getting to Thailand. The good thing was lugging that thing along helped saved my life and the lives of several relatives. Not gonna go into details but yes there were times that I had to pulled the trigger.

It is believed that there are still some Hmongs trapped in the juggle today. In the mid-2000 a British Fact Finding organization was escorted by a couple of Hmongs deep in the jungle of Laos and captured some video footages of many Hmongs still trapped in the jungle. Some of those videos were posted on youtube I believe for a specific purpose. Here is one video, but beware of the contents. It may not be appropriate for some viewers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPHQqdWtOVE . It's part of the result of the CIA Secret War in Laos.

L2H

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Live2hunt,

Thanks for the reply. Sometimes I wonder if it was worth all the pain? I was sound asleep in my apartment with my girlfriend, the night that the Pathet Lao Communist entered Vientiane, Laos. I can't tell you anything other than the Pathet Lao made a traditional attack with Armor, Artillery, and Infantry. For some reason unknown to me, I had to signed an agreement with the US Government not to disclose the details of the Laos and Vietnam War before I was allowed to return to CONUS. And of course, I wanted to go home so I signed it. I plan to scan that document and post it later in this thread.

I was one of the last group to leave Laos in 1962 after the Geneva Accord went into effect. I have that Passenger Manifest on Air America, and will scan that one also. The Accord was intended to bring neutrality to Laos, and Souvanna Phouma, a Neutralist, became the prime minister. I was already out of Laos and assigned to the Military Advisory Command Vietnam (MACV) in Siagon when Prince Souvana Phouma requested the US assistance to combat North Vietnamese aggression. So, I really wasn't a "Butter Fly" working for the US Air Force making my maps. I was a traditional Military Adviser for the US Army who was assigned to the Communications Center in the US Overseas Mission (USOM) Compound in Vientiane, Laos.


However, I do believe that many of my secret maps ended up in the hands of the US Air Force "Butter Flies", because the Royal Lao Air Force Pilots did use my UTM grid maps with their T-28 prop fighter planes. As the Vietnam War heated up, I doubt if anyone actually put their feet on the ground to put the Universal Mercator Projection (UTM Grid) on the back side of Aerial Photograph maps. From what I heard, the Americans and South Vietnamese shot wildly into the jungle, and the Air Force bombed at random.


I remember that it was during 1962 when I was in Saigon that (MACV) was formed. I was honored and proud to be one of the first assigned to the Military Advisory Command Vietnam. Probably because I was a good looking young boy in those days? I remember going to the Saigon Post Office for the General, probably for his private love letters?


I had already returned to CONUS in March of 63 when in October of that year President Kennedy decided to withdraw US Forces. We were all happy to hear that. However, the day after his death, President Johnson reversed that decision and immediately sent more troops. I was at the Sacramento Army Depot supporting the war from this side, and we couldn't believe that Johnson would make such a drastic mistake. Everyone that worked in the office was in at state of shock.

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We had peaceful days too. These pics were taken of the Mekong River during the winter of 1961.




Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

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I connected with one of the Air Force guys who I worked with in Laos. Remember: I was just a skinny runt who worked on the maps. ha!

Here is his Story
Eugene D. Rossel

Lt Col Rossel was born July 14, 1937 in Okawville, IL. He graduated from Cathedral High School, Belleville, IL in 1955. He attended St Louis University, St Louis, MO receiving a bachelor of science degree in Electrical Engineering and commissioned as a 2nd Lt in the USAFR in 1959. He received Ground Radar Training at Keesler AFB, MS, then went to become the Director of Radar at the 3208th Test Group, Eglin AFB, FL. In Oct 1961 he was interviewed and assigned to the newly formed Air Force Counterinsurgency unit at Hurlburt Field, FL as a Communications Officer. From March 1962 to November 1962 he served a tour in South Vietnam with the Jungle Jim Project involved in both counterinsurgency and unconventional warfare. From April 1963 to January 1966 he was the Director of Ground and Airborne Communications in the Panama Canal Zone, for the Air Force Counterinsurgency forces in Latin America, working with the Army Special Forces, Navy Seals, and the Latin American governments. During this time he completed both the Army Airborne Jump School and the Air force Jungle Survival School. In addition to this; he was involved with the many critical counterinsurgency programs on going in Latin America.


During 1964 to 1966, Lt Col Rossel attended Florida State University, in the Panama Canal Zone and the Staff Communications and Electronic Course at Keesler AFB, MS. He was then assigned as the Senior Communications Director at Special Air Warfare Center, Eglin AFB, FL, completing that assignment in July 1968. During this tour, he completed 27 parachute jumps and wrote a book on AF Counterinsurgency Communications which had worldwide distribution. He received his master of science degree in Business Management in August, 1969 from the Air force Institute of Technology. Following graduation, he was assigned to Laos as the Director of USAF Communications for that country in sept 1969. There he was involved with all the aspects of the shadowy aspects of the war in that country. Completing this assignment in September 1970, he was then assigned to Torrejon AB, Spain, first as the Director of Communications for the Mediterranean Region and later assigned to a joint US-Spanish test team to upgrade radar systems for Spain under the ESD Combat Grande Program. From March 1972 to November 1977 he supervised American and Spanish engineers and technicians as Project Manager for the Combat Grande International Program. His next assignment began in December 1977 at SAMSO, now Space Division(SD), Los Angels AFS, CA, with duties which included managing the DOD technical security portion of the Space Shuttle Program. In the next SD assignment, from October 1979 to March 1983, he provided technical support and was a consultant to the Small Business Administration to obtain more contracts for high-tech small business under Public Law 95-568. During this time he also managed the Space Division Reserve Forces which consisted over 500 engineers. Starting in April 1983, he managed the Product Assurance, production and Configuration/Data Management for the Air Force Space Defense Program prior to coming to BMO in March 1984. Lt Col Eugene D. Rossel was the Director of Systems Concepts and Plans for the Deputy Commander, Plans and Advanced Programs at the Ballistic Missile Office, Air Force Systems Command, Norton AFB, CA. He was responsible for defining potential missions for weapon systems using ballistic missile technology throughout the next 20 years and responsible for the Ballistic Missile Office's Development planning to include Vanguard. Other responsibilities include the overall direction and management of all Air Force future strategic ballistic missile concept definitions, manages the BMO Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) program, and is the BMO focal point for Strategic Defense Initiative activities.

His overseas tours include Vietnam(1962), Panama(1963-1966), Laos (1969-1970) and Spain (1970-1977

Military
LtCol Eugene D. Rossel
USAF
20 Nov., 1954-1 June, 1987

Unit Location Date

USAF Reserves Scott AFB, IL 20 Nov 54-23 Jul 59
Radar School(ATC) Keesler AFB, MS 30 Aug 59-10 Jan 60
3208 Test Group(ARDC) Eglin AFB, FL 28 Jan 60-Jan 62
4400 CCTS(TAC) Hurlburt Field, FL 10 Jan 62-May 62
Det 2, 1ACS FARMGATE Bien Hoa AB, Vtnm May 62-Oct 62
1Air Commando Wing(TAC) Hurlburt Field, FL Oct 62-May 63
605ACS(US Southern Cmd) Panama Canal Zone May 63-Jan 66
Staff C-E School(ATC) Keesler AFB, MS Jan 66-Sep 66
SAWC(TAC) Eglin AFB, FL Sep 66-Jul 68
AFIT(AU) WPAFB, OH Jul 68-Sep 69
Project 404(HQ USAF) Vientiane, Laos Sep 69-Sep 70
Med Comm Region(AFCS) Torrejon AB, Spain Sep 70-Mar 72
Combat Grande(ESD/AFSC) Torrejon AB, Spain Mar 72-Dec 77
Shuttle SPO, SAMSO(AFSC) LAAFS, CA Dec 77-Jan 80
SBA, Space Div(AFSC) LAAFS, CA Jan 80-Feb 83
AFR, Space Div(AFSC) LAAFS, CA Jan 80-Feb 83
ASAT, Space Div(AFSC) LAAFS, CA Feb 83-Feb 84
BMO, ASMS(AFSC) Norton AFB, CA Feb 84-Jun 87
Retired USAF Norton AFB, CA 1 June, 1987



Decorations
Bronze Star Medal
Meritorious Service Medal
Air Medal
Joint Service Commendation Medal
Air Force Commendation Medal(3)
Air Force Outstanding Unit Award(3)
Air Force Organizational Excellence Award(2)
National Defense Service Medal Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
Vietnam Service Medal (5)
Air Force Overseas Short Tour Ribbon
Air Force Overseas Long Tour Ribbon(2)
Air Force Longevity Service Award Ribbon(6)
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
Air Force training Ribbon
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Device
Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal

Eugene D. Rossel
DOB 14 July, 1937 Okawville, IL
LT Col USAF Retired 20 Nov., 1954 to 1 June 1987


Air Force Career started out on the AF Reserve as an Airborne Radio Operator on a C-119. Joined the AFR at age 17 and took 2 days of begging my mother to sign to let me in. The AFR recruiter came to my high school in Oct., 1954 and within 5 minutes I knew I wanted to join-he painted an exciting world of travel, flying and adventure.
Received a BS in Electric Engineering From St Louis University and a commission as a 2nd Lt in the USAF in July, 1959. Entered the USAF at Keesler AFB, TDY from Eglin AFB, FL on 30 Aug., 1959. In 1969 received a MS in Logistic Management from AFIT. Attended numerous communications, radar and other technical schools in the AF. Attended university courses from Florida State University, UC Riverside, Chaffey College, Mt San Antonio college, Coastline College, University of Chicago and other schools. Presently Vice President of Marketing and Contracts for Unitek Technology Inc in Ontario, CA.

Served in Air Commando units from 1961-1968 & 1969-1970
Selected and screened for the Jungle Jim/4400 CCTS Sept 1961.
Served in the following Air Commando Units from Jan 1961-July 1968:
Jungle Jim/4400 CCTS Dec 61-May 62, Communications Officer
Det 2A, Bien Hoa, Vietnam May 62-Oct 62, Airborne & Gnd Comm Off
1ACW Hurlburt Field Oct 62-May 63, Comm Officer
605ACS Panama May 63-Jan 66, Staff Comm Officer
SAWC Eglin AFB Sep 66-Sep 68, Staff CE Off
Project 404 Laos Sep 69-Sep 70, AF Comm Officer for Laos

Retired from AF 1 June, 1987 at Ballistic Missile Office as head of the Advanced Ballistic Missile System

During my tour as a Communications Officer in AC units I was put on flying status and jump status and at one time I was being paid for being on both status which I was probably the only non-rated officer in the AF to achieve this distinction. Some of the tactics, equipment and concepts I helped develop or test for the AC units around the world are as follows:



Sent from my iPhone/Tapatalk

[Live2hunt]

Sometimes I wonder if it was worth all the pain? I was sound asleep in my apartment with my girlfriend, the night that the Pathet Lao Communist entered Vientiane, Laos. I can't tell you anything other than the Pathet Lao made a traditional attack with Armor, Artillery, and Infantry.

United States Oversea Mission (USOM) was originally an organization in Laos that helped to do machinery maintenance. My dad said something about how USOM was the base for US CIA stepping into Laos, but I could not find much info on how that came into play.

The battle in Vientiane was led by General Kong Le in charge of the two most highly trained military infantry, one based in Vang Vieng and one based in Wat Tai. Here is a little history about him.

The home is small and plain, identical to many others in this flat, dusty farming city. Beside the front door sits a carefully tended lily plant and a mound of scuffed shoes. Like a supplicant entering a temple, you too remove your footwear,to await an audience with the General.
Inside it is dark. You notice a single shabby couch. Three bare walls. But the fourth wall resembles a shrine, festooned with candles, paper flowers and photos of groups of soldiers. At the center is a framed copy of a 1964 Time magazine; the cover depicts a wiry, grinning soldier in a red beret, posed against lush jungle foliage.

Squatting barefoot on a worn rug are a dozen sunburned, middle-aged refugees from Laos – mostly tenant farmers who grow eggplant, peppers and melons on small plots outside town. They are hushed, expectant. When a van arrives outside, an excited murmur courses around the room. He is coming!

A tiny figure appears at the door. He is bald man in his sixties, with deep furrows around his eyes and a toothy grin. The same face as the man on Time's cover. He wears a crisp green combat vest. His forearms are still brawny. Wrapped around both wrists are tattered white strings. Magical strings, his followers believe. Some of the squatting men wear them, too.

As the little man grunts a greeting, each Laotian bows down, hands pressed together, and touches his forehead to the rug – a sign of respect for the beloved General.

On the great stage of history, players come and go, their stature often determined by chance collisions of circumstance and opportunity. Once upon a time, Gen. Kong Le was an actor of crucial importance, an ally in the American fight against communism in Indochina.

Today, he is a stateless nomad trying to stay one step ahead of deportation by U.S. immigration authorities. He has become a bureaucratic annoyance and a minor diplomatic embarrassment. In official Washington, he enjoys no more respect than any other illegal alien – say, an undocumented dishwasher in a Georgetown bistro.

But back in the summer of 1960, when he was a dashing 26-year-old paratrooper, trained by American and French advisers, Kong Le made international headlines by seizing Vientiane, the Laotian capital, with 800 troops. He declared a new, politically neutral government. A profile in the New York Times described him as a revolutionary hero.

In this sideshow to the Vietnam conflict, Kong Le was suddenly seen as the plucky, 4-foot-11 defender of a crucial, tottering domino. Time, in its cover story of June 26, 1964, said: "He stood almost alone in Laos last week as the West's only effective battler against Communism." The Pentagon invited him on a month-long visit, and The Washington Post carried a large photo of him reviewing troops at Fort Myer.

These days, the only significant news about Laos involves a discredited newscast about nerve gas, reviving dim memories and causing some career consternation. (As CNN correspondent Peter Arnett said in self-defense last week: "Laos was a black hole during the war. A lot went on there that we didn't know about.")

And today few people remember the name of Kong Le; he slipped off the stage of history more than 30 years ago, fleeing into obscure exile from a political maelstrom involving the CIA, various Laotian princes and the Pathet Lao, a communist insurgency backed by the North Vietnamese.

In 1975, shortly after the fall of Saigon, the communists took over Laos. They remain firmly in power. But for the General and his followers, the war rages on. They imagine their return to glory and plot sweet revenge against the Pathet Lao.

Kong Le himself owns no property, holds no actual rank and has no job – hasn't worked in decades. He sleeps in the spare rooms of his supporters in Laotian enclaves around the country, from California to Arkansas to Virginia, surviving on their generous financial contributions.

His story reflects the dreams and divisions of a scattered, nearly invisible immigrant community – which happens to be Laotian but could easily be Ethiopian or Kurdish, Salvadoran or Cuban – where people toil for years at menial jobs in America, but live their real lives in the past, and fantasize that it can become the future.

"We are going to go back and fight the communists until we win!"

In a cramped living room in Arlington, the General is holding court before a circle of mesmerized Laotian admirers, sitting bunched together on the rug. Last month it was farmers in Fresno, where 20,000 Lao live. This month it is the Washington area, where an additional 10,000 live.

Today, 50 people have gathered to hear him speak. They are not the educated elite of the capital area's refugee society. They are factory workers and janitors and technicians, some of whom drove all night from Massachusetts and North Carolina for the occasion.

"Some Lao come here and want to settle down to a comfortable life, but not us," Kong Le is saying. "Some people have sent money or gone back to support the communists. But we are ready to fight. . . . When the moment is ready, we will go back and fight, and we will win. The people of Laos are getting angry, and this is from their hearts."

The room erupts in applause.

Kong Le's speeches, delivered in Lao (and translated on the spot by his right-hand man, a sharp young lawyer named Tony Saisomorn), ramble from patriotic harangues to fatherly advice. One moment he is excoriating the Pathet Lao, the next he is expounding on the benefits of Lao herbal medicine, specifically a kind of tree bark that guarantees long life when ground up and boiled with rice.

In many ways, Kong Le seems more like a Buddhist monk than a military commander. His bald head bobs for emphasis, his voice is a gutteral singsong, his wrists are wrapped with dozens of baci strings for good luck. They are a large part of a legend that the General has cultivated for nearly four decades.

When he took power in 1960, Kong Le vowed to make Laos a little Switzerland: neutral, united and peaceful. Instead, his forces were driven from the capital after four months of chaotic political and military maneuvering that The Washington Post described as having "more plots and counter-plots than a 5-act Verdi opera."

Despite his elusive grasp on power, Kong Le proved a popular leader and a shrewd survivor; he first accepted Soviet support, then swerved toward the Americans, during five years of seesawing battles. As U.S. covert military operations expanded inside Laos, American officials touted Kong Le's utopian quest for "neutrality" as the best bulwark against North Vietnamese encroachment.

Time magazine's report depicted Kong Le as a hero of mythic proportions: a guerrilla fighter who slept in the jungle with his men, shielded from bullets by the magical Buddhist baci wristlets and a powerful guardian spirit called a phi. Some Laotians were said to believe he was the reincarnation of Setthathirath, a legendary Lao king who vanished into the jungle four centuries ago.

But it turns out that the General was never even a general at all. His last official rank in the Royal Lao Army was captain. It was afterward, during his years as a jungle fighter, that he acquired the honorary title. "My men gave me that name," he says today, with a grunt and a giggle.

Kong Le's military prowess also failed to match his press notices. While he was stealing the show, the Pathet Lao were advancing implacably on the ground. In late 1966, exhausted by successive military defeats, political plots and international pressure, he flew into exile, leaving Laos to another decade of fighting.

He wound up in France, but by 1988 his constant political activities – including a mission to China to train freedom fighters – had grown tiresome for his government hosts. So Kong Le decided to try his luck in the United States. More than 250,000 Laotian refugees had resettled here, including some of his old paratrooper forces. The General was older now, but still fit and vigorous. He still had friends in the American military; he still had his guardian phi. And he still had true believers.

Kong Le's devotees include men like Phouthone Savathvongxay, 63, a tenant farmer in Fresno who joined his guerrilla forces in 1963, living on frogs and leaves in the jungle until 1975, when the Pathet Lao took over. He was caught and sent to a communist "seminar camp," where he was forced to do hard labor and given a little rice to eat. Eventually he escaped to Thailand and came to the United States in 1989.

And men like Ly Khoxayo, 58, a medical warehouse worker from Lowell, Mass., who drove to Virginia last month for a brief meeting with his leader. Khoxayo also escaped from a Pathet Lao prison camp, swam the Mekong River to safety while pulling his wife and children on an inner tube, and was resettled in the United States in 1980.

Both of these men set aside a large portion of their pay to send to the General and his cause. In both Fresno and Arlington, followers of very modest means said they sent several hundred dollars a month to Kong Le's party, the Procession for the Revolution of the Lao National Neutrality.

Kong Le launches his fund-raising trips from Hawaii, where he has been living at Saisomorn's house. The General is reluctant to discuss his personal life. He reportedly has had four wives; he says he has five sons. According to Kong Le and Saisomorn, most of the cash they raise goes to support a force of several hundred resistence fighters in the jungles of Laos – an army that includes three of the General's sons and a brother.

But it's impossible to verify that any such fighters exist. The odds are next to nothing that Kong Le will ever lead his troops back to liberate Laos; even his own immigration attorney in Washington, Donald Schlemmer, calls the General's crusade a bit of a "fantasy."

Still, Kong Le's disciples cling to the quest their exiled leader embodies: the dream of reclaiming their country from the enemy. In many of their homes, pinned to the wall near old photographs of the General, is a bright blue flag with a circle of white stars – the Laotian "neutralist" flag designed by Kong Le.

"The General loves my people and my people love him," Khoxayo, the warehouse worker, explains in halting English. "He is our only leader. My dream is to follow him, to go back and free my country. When he says it is time to go, we will go."

To a large extent, the General is all his men have. In this country, they are nobodies; farmers and factory workers who speak little English. Once they were paratroopers and pilots and rebels battling for a land they loved – a fertile paradise of rich culture, sensuous women and strong mystical beliefs.

"In a way, I admire Kong Le. His passion keeps the candle burning," said Vilay Chaleunrath, a Lao who heads a nonprofit refugee agency in the District. "Perhaps people believe he can perform some miracle. They have a dream, and I doubt it will materialize, but they are entitled to it."

To the American immigration authorities, Kong Le's past glories are irrelevant. Since 1988, when he arrived at Kennedy Airport with a tourist visa and settled for a time in the Northern Virginia suburbs, Kong Le has repeatedly applied for political asylum and legal residency. He has been turned down at every level of the system, most recently by an appeals court panel in Richmond.

In appearances and affidavits before various immigration courts, he has dropped names of famous acquaintances from Charles de Gaulle to Richard Nixon, described attempts on his life by "North Vietnamese agents" in the Paris subway, and declared himself a freedom fighter with "thousands of followers" worldwide, who will not rest until Laos is liberated from communist rule.

"I am, undoubtedly, a key figure in the fight against communism and oppression still going on in Laos," he wrote in an autobiography submitted in court. "I request legal residency in the United States so that I can best co-ordinate international efforts to distabilize [sic] and finally overthrow the Pathet Lao."

But officials are reluctant to set any precedent by allowing Kong Le to stay here. While agreeing his life might be in danger if he were forced to return to Laos, they suggest he would be perfectly safe back in Paris.

In 1995 the General was ordered to report to an INS office with no more than "2 pieces of baggage," ready for deportation to France. He appealed that ruling, but the Board of Immigration Appeals upheld it and ordered him deported again in 1997. He appealed to the federal courts, and lost once more. Technically, Kong Le could be picked up and deported today.

"This court appreciates the difficult circumstances described by the Respondent," Judge John M. Bryant wrote after listening to Kong Le's story in an Arlington courtroom in 1995. But he found that the General had failed to prove a "well-founded fear of persecution" if sent to France – or even that he was likely to face threats because of his race, religion, birthplace, affiliations or political views.

In other words – and this was most humiliating of all – Kong Le was simply not important enough to merit asylum in the United States. More than anything else, says lawyer Schlemmer, the General is "afraid of losing face."

The most punishing foe of Kong Le is the march of history, which has simply bypassed his cause. Although the United States lost the battle in Indochina, it has since won the war. Vietnam may be communist, but it is likely to be vanquished by market forces. Laos, once the domino President Kennedy most feared falling to the communists, is now viewed as inevitably tilting in the direction of Wall Street.

Officially, the United States is on fairly good terms with Laos these days. According to the State Department, bilateral relations have been "steadily improving" in recent years. The Pathet Lao's jailing of Christian missionaries has been a sticking point with Congress, but U.S. officials are especially pleased at the Laotians' cooperation in efforts to locate missing U.S. servicemen and eradicate opium trafficking. Thus, Kong Le's protestations of grave human rights abuses in his homeland lack credibility with the INS.

American diplomats confirm that several insurgent groups are operating in the northern jungles of Laos, but they say none constitutes a serious threat. "These groups don't seem to get along very well," one diplomat notes dryly. "They don't like each other, and they often seem to work at cross-purposes."

Once, the General's boasts of an army of several hundred resistance fighters poised for action might have invited an offer of covert U.S. support. Now they seem more likely to create a diplomatic incident. We'd prefer he just went away.

Kong Le is not the most famous Laotian refugee military leader living in the United States. That distinction belongs to his old political and military rival Vang Pao, who led a secret army of Hmong tribesmen that was trained by the CIA to rescue American pilots, guide American bombs and sabotage Vietnamese communist forces. Today, he lives on a farm in Minnesota, the heart of the 150,000-strong population of Hmong refugees.

The Hmong veterans are embarked on their own crusade to win official recognition and benefits from Congress for their clandestine service to the U.S. military. Their leaders, including aides to Vang Pao, profess to be "unfamiliar" with Kong Le's current activities. Some said they were not even aware he has been living in the United States.

When asked about Vang Pao and the Hmong veterans' campaign, Kong Le offers a characteristic grunt of contempt: "We are still fighting a war. We are not veterans yet. There are other right-wing groups that are trying to campaign here, but they cannot touch our party. . . . We will do what needs to be done."

Although Kong Le's followers are fervent, they are few and scattered. Unlike the more numerous Hmong, the Lao in America have no unifying leader. Their communities are rife with suspicions that one group or another is sympathetic to the Pathet Lao government and slyly influencing refugees to send money or return home to live.

The divisions are especially sharp in the Washington region, where many Lao refugees are former military officers. In the past five years, the Embassy of Laos has been attempting to win over this populace by inviting them to events, issuing upbeat reports about conditions back home and wielding influence at the Buddhist temple near Manassas that is the heart of Lao community life.

"Our community is sliced up like a pizza. In each Lao family, in each house, in each organization, either you are pro-embassy or against it. It is a terrible split, and there is no trust," says King Pathammavong, 40, a Lao housing specialist for Arlington County.

Some younger, U.S.-educated Lao are open to a new relationship with Vientiane. Older refugees like Khamthene Chinyavong – a former army colonel who lives in Alexandria – are bitterly opposed. He and his friends spend hours plotting ways to combat "sabotage" and "infiltration" by agents and allies of the Laotian Embassy.

Kong Le also warns his disciples against the insinuations of "red Lao" in their midst. Yet compared with the poisoned atmosphere among Lao in this area, his spiritually tinged crusade across the heartland seems innocent and quixotic – not unlike a young paratrooper's quest, 38 years ago, for elusive "neutrality" in an ideological minefield.

But this squat, grinning guru is no fool. At every whistle-stop, in shabby towns like Tupelo and Pawtucket, Fort Smith and Fresno, his men ask him how soon the moment will come to attack. At every stop, he tells them to wait, the people of Laos aren't ready yet, the time is not yet ripe.

And at the end of every visit, after he has been treated to feasts and sometimes wreath-strewn parades, there comes a moment when Kong Le or his aides mumble something in Lao. Without hesitation, a dozen tired-looking men pull out their wallets, peel off $50 or $100 in cash – and hand it over to their beloved General.

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I don't remember if I mentioned this, but before I was released to return home, I had to sign an agreement with the US Government (not Army) that I would not disclose what happened in South East Asia. That agreement is still in effect.

I will go out on the limb and tell you that the US Army was in command during the attack and resulting Geneva Accords. I worked directly under Major General R. H. Tucker, US Army. His office was about 60 meters West of the USOM Communications Center where I spent most of my time.


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[map]

The document from USOM Vientiane, Laos is Top Secret, so I can't disclose it, but the agreement from MAAG Vietnam isn't. Here is the Certificate I had to sign to get the hell out of there:

"I have properly accounted for or turned in all classified material, both military and of a civil nature, I will not communicate or transmit orally or in writing, to any person except Department of Defense Agencies, any classified documents, memorandums, personal notes or other classified recorded information pertaining to MAAG Vietnam or Government Official Business."

To be on the safe side, I never disclose what happened in Vietnam either.

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The remains of 6 more U S Airmen have been found in Laos:

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/05/461...us-airmen.html



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[spectr17]

If you scroll down this USAF CCT Facebook group a bit there's some pics and chatter about Laos from several members that were there as "Butterflies" for the US gubmint. Looks for posts by a member named Richard Naylor. The weapons pics he posted and info was very interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2538205168/

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Thanks Jesse,

That's a keeper. I had a Laos group going on Classmates, but they decided to delete all the military stuff. I lost contact with the Secret War in Laos.

I was one if the first to put boots on the ground, so I made maps while Special Forces teams gave me cover. A piece of cake, really.

I was more afraid of the tigers than anything, but when we seen a couple of scrawny natives scare a tiger away and steal the Buffalo meat, I stopped worrying. It is very easy to bluff a cat, whether big or small. They are all the same.


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[spectr17]

Naylor has a blog too you might want to check out. Lots of pics from that area in Laos.

http://ranaylor.blogspot.com/

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Jesse,

Evidently, Naylor didn't get kicked out of Laos with me in Geneva Accords in July of 1962? All 300 of the US Army personal in Laos signed the agreement in front of each member of the International Control Committee. The agreement clearly stated that we would face a firing squad if we ever returned to Laos.

As far as I know, all 300 of the US Army are still under the restrictions of the 1962 Geneva Accord? After signing the 1962 Accord in Vientiane, Laos I went directly to Saigon as a guest of President Diem, because South Vietnam didn't sign the earlier 1954 Accord.

It's interesting to note that Naylor, myself, and you are all licensed Ham Radio operators.


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[spectr17]

I'm fascinated by his work with that GRC-47 short range radar unit. Never heard of it and he says only 2 people were ever trained on it and he's never seen any info on the unit anywhere. It cracked me up when he talked about trying to airdrop that radar unit and it getting busted up. We tried to airdrop DZ beacons called SKEs like that and they always got busted up the same. SKE (Station Keeping Equipment) was an R2D2 looking beacon we used on a DZ to guide in the airdrop aircraft. The beacon also helped the navigators with the aircraft separation to keep them in formation in weather. At least that's the way it was supposed to work, it caused more near heart attacks than anything I worked with in the USAF. Make sure and read his blog from the start, the archive links are on the right. I may have mispoke about him being a Butterfly for the USAF, he talks about the Butterflies being in another area of Laos. His description of the jungle there in Laos was wild. Technically he wasn't there to be "kicked out", he was "sheepdipped" which was how the military hid people working in locations we denied we had people in. As he said, there was still Army, CIA, USAF all there, just in civies and long hair after the accord.

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Here is a link that I found with Google. It lists the 40 year history of RADC Radar at Griffiss AFB. The GRC-47 is in there somewhere.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA250435

We had VHF Towers linking Vientiane Laos with Bangkok. From there STARCOM would link with Da Nang.

No jet fighters in 1962.


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[spectr17]

Hmm, in that doc they call the GRC-47 an air rescue radio???? I'm going to run it by some older commo guys on some SF boards, some of them may have seen it. I never got to play with portable radars, we had a portable TACAN that we could carry on our 3 wheelers and beacons but no active radar for ATC that I got to use or maintain. I'm sure they had a unit or two that we didn't know about.

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The GRC-47 that he is talking about is probably the Army's ground radar for moving targets. The AN/TCP-25 which I think is the same basic 1962 vantage radar as the GRC-47? Here is an old Army Training Film:

http://m.youtube.com/?reload=3&rdm=m...MiaYr_6k&gl=US

Notice all the complicated procedures needed to setup the radar. Nothing was automatic and hand cranks were required. I was part of it with the maps we made. Notice that the radar was aligned to the paper map. The paper map was central to the tactics.

The Air Force guys were probably acting as Flight Controllers with their antennas on their helmets? Kind of like in modern airports when they bringing the planes in on a beam for a landing.

I forgot to mention that everything was in what we civilians call the UTM Grid. The grid lines were on the paper map with Aerial Photo on the back.


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[spectr17]

Something wrong with that AN-TPC-25 link mapman, I can't get the YT video to open.

Naylor said it's been a long time and he may not be correct on the GRC-47 nomenclature. GRC is Ground Radio Communications, something I worked on in radio commo, "dirt rats" they called us ground radio troops. "Scope dopes" worked on radar units and their units had a different nomenclature for the first designator. Maybe GRR or GRU. I'm checking with some old timers and scope dopes to see if they know.

Naylor was a USAF Combat Controller (CCT), an ATC rated SF troop. Also jump trained to handle airfield assaults, DZs, LZs, LAPES extractions, survey runways, read weather, run an airfield tower, etc. The CCTs that went into Haiti after that big earthquake set up on a poker table with their radios to get the planes and cargo moving. A CIA pilot flew a CCT into Desert One before the Iran Raid to survey and set up an LZ with remote control infrared markers in the desert there on a motorcyle at night. That's the kind work they do.

With the TACAN, it spits out electronic radials from your location so you can put aircraft on a spoke of the wheel and a certain altitude. "Applied physics with choreography" is what they call it. lol. Stack your fast mover here, slower A-10s over here, Apaches gunships over there, AC-130s over there, BUFFs up there, etc. When the tanks pulled up to the gates of Baghdad they stood fast while 2 CCTs divided the city in half and then took it apart from above with CAS. You may remember the A-10 and F-18 gun and bomb runs. It was a turkey shoot with layers of CAS assets stacked up above the city. A whole lotta rain fell that day. Same thing for the prison uprising at Qala-i-Jangi in Astan in the beginning of the war when they killed that CIA interpreter. The British SAS helped keep the rats in the prison while CCT showed up with AC-130 gunships to apply some phsyics. One of the quotes I saw from the CCT that night was in a phone call he made to his wife back home here. He told her to tape CNN, it was going to be one hell of a fireworks show. No tape was ever released that I've seen, probably way to bloody. The courtyard of that prison was littered with bodies the next day, that is all they dared show.

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Yes, we made some great ground surveillance accomplishments that started back in the Secret 1962 War in Laos. Here is another link for the AN/TPS-25 Army Training Film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuHMi...e_gdata_player

As you will see in the film, it was a Van/Trailer unit that could be pulled around with just about any vehicle, or even water buffalo if needed.

It was probably easy to communicate with aircraft using VHF, however once enemy movement on the ground was detected with a mobile Ground Surveillance Unit, contacting Da Nang or other tactical air strip had to be done using 40 Meters HF which was fairly reliable during day light hours for short distance communications. We used a dipole antenna made of wire.

I never participated in the Ground Radar, but remember delivering my maps to similar Trailer/Van units with a dome antenna like in the training film. I was too young to understand what they were doing?

Our VHF chain of towers link with Bangkok would get knocked down from time to time, and I was assigned to the radio team that set up a relay net with AN/GRC-9 HF powered by Hand Crank Generator. When our private VHF link with Bangkok was down our security was at risk, because coded messages would eventually be decoded by the Russians.


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[spectr17]

This wouldn't have been a trailer or van mounted unit, the radar Naylor was using would have been man portable. Like the PRC-47 radio and it's heavy azz silver zinc wet cell batteries, it may have taken a water buffalo to carry it but they made us hump it and air drop it. I wish he had a pic of it.

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I couldn't find anything on the PRC-47, but I found the VHF PRC-77 that was a later Transistor version of the PRC-25. The 77 Was introduced in Vietnam in 1968, so the 25 was probably used in Laos in 1962? The Air Force guys had to have a man portable VHF radio to talk to pilots into a strike.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/PRC-77


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[spectr17]

Prick 47 as we called them, was a huge HF tube radio, weighed like 45 lbs alone, 100W IIRC. The batteries were like 10 lbs each and it took two to run it. We carried PRC-77 and had one mounted in our jeeps mostly to talk to army range control and for patrols. For mil VHF we had a Dynair SKY-515 radio. We also carried PRC-66s to cover mil UHF channels, this was our smallest radio. I'm not sure what they had in Laos for VHF, I'll ask Naylor.

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I visited the Central Intelligence Agency web site for the War in Laos, and they don't list TACAN Transponders until 1965:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...ss/Linder.html

What Naylor is calling TACAN was probably VOR (VHF Transponder)? That would have been a neat trick if he could do that with man portable units using a scope.

Notice the correlation between the unarmed Air Force technicians and me being an unarmed Army map maker. I couldn't take care of myself and relied on SF, Hmong, and the Royal Lao Army to cover my a$$. Not exactly a Rambo Movie. :-)

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[P304X4]

If you have interest in CCT check out http://combatcontrolnet.blogspot.com/ also Sgt. Mac's Bar. Mac is a good source for personel info. also check USAF Special Tactics. I'm not an SEA vet. but was in CCT as a ground radio repairman from Aug 1969 to Aug 1979 and worked as CCT maint support till March 1985. I noticed that R. Naylor's bio listed him as a 27250B if this is right then I'm not sure how he was in CCT. His AFSC, not MOS, should have been P27250D. P for parachutist and D for CCT. I've been looking at some of the equipment listed and the only R2D2 (or green bomb shell) in AF CCT inventory was known as a TRN-25 a low frequency marker beacon.

[mythos]

Cool info on this thread. My father and his brothers were part of the CIA backed "secret" Hmong Army led by Lt. Gen. Vang Pao. I still remember when I was younger my dad would talk about how life was at Lima site 98, Long Chieng in Laos.

[P304X4]

Forgot to mention that Sgt. Macs Bar has a link on Laos. If you scroll down a bit you'll find a list of names of all known CCT personel who served there as well as good info concerning the attack on Lima Site 85.

[P304X4]

I keep finding tidbits to add to, the PRC-25/-77 radios were good for point to point or ground to Army aircraft in the late 60's through the mid 80's (my time) but not AF aircraft. The 25/77 VHF range was too low. VHF radio for AF was a SKY-515, in the late 60's, also used was the PRC-66 for AF aircraft com. Vehicle mounted radios were also used by CCT in M151 Jeeps designated as MRC-107, -107A and -108 (since I wasn't there I don't know if these were used in Laos or not). A replacement for the PRC-47 was the PRC-74, the range wasn't as good but it was about half the weight.

[spectr17]

P304X4, Naylor posts on the CCT Facebook page and the Vietnam era CCT there appear to know him as CCT. If you want to vet Naylor that would be the place. As you can tell by his blog, he wasn't on the USAF CCT books while in Laos, he was sheepdipped and working for the Christians In Action.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2538205168/

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If you guys have a few minutes to spare, go back to my post #20 and watch the Army Training Film on the AN/TPS-25 Ground Radar. Everything was referenced to the Quadrangle Maps, and they were in process. Something like radar was operated by civilian technical people from the manufacture. I think?

That leaves us the question: What exactly did the Air Force CCT do?


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