How to purge the aholes and slob hunters? Dove opener mass saturation coverage by wardens like DUI. Poll time

[sammyguy193]

Believe it or not, killing ants with a magnifying glass is QUITE sporting...

[sammyguy193]

Do you like the police state we are turning into? As hunters and gun owners are you ok with having to fight for the right to bear arms and to hunt? So why would you promote the banning or restricting the rights of anybody regardless of what they do? You take away there rights and you take away your own rights. Its time we get back to the old school and police our selves. Your see that going on and confront them. Dont call the warrden and post it online. Step up to the plate and enforce the moral code. I dont get the whole dove thing anyway but i dont like the promotion of more laws and restrictions. We have to deal with enough b.s. just to enjoy the little freedom we have left...my to cents

Nobody's suggesting a ban or new laws. But you're absolutely right. We shouldn't need to have ANY kind of enforcement. But with the number of dumb*sses around ruining it for the rest of us and the inability of the lay person or hunter to enforce common decencies, I absolutely support greater enforcement of the rules, albeit temporarily, to curb abuses of our dwindling natural resources. But if, as you say, we should police ourselves, i'm not so sure. I've confronted plenty of people, hunters and otherwise, who litter, poach, trespass, plink, destroy, etc., only to be, laughed at, yelled at, or threatened. Despite my open carry while hunting, I've still been physically and verbally accosted. I'd rather not risk getting involved with a-holes like that. Better to have someone with the authority to enforce and punish than some random friendly six-foot-two dude with a pistol and a shotgun. And we have plenty of freedoms. Look anywhere else in the world and this is by far the best country to live in. Canada aint bad either. Laws are good. limits are good. restrictions are good. it's communication about what is acceptable and appropriate while living and sharing a common community and resource. open communication between people is essential. If the hunting community is fed up with litterbugs, trespassers, poachers, etc., then campaign against it like we campaign to involve our youths in our hunting heritage. I pick up after litterbugs. I pick up my shells. We all make mistakes, but hopefully in the end you do more good than bad and set an example for others.

[looeylongun]

Sorry but I was pissed off that day after being shaken down in the cnf by the forrest law enforcement nazis..hands behind our backs, pat downs, gun inspections, vehicle search. Seems a mtn biker called on me and a buddy for "target shooting" and claimed a bullet whizzed over his head all while just trying to do a little rabbit hunting. Being new to hunting im frustrated at all the laws and bs we have to deal with. I plan on passing down to my kids how to be responsible hunters but the way things are going might have to stick to fishing.

[sammyguy193]

CNF probably isnt the best place to hunt... Legal, yes, and you're probably plenty safe and responsible, but the general public isn't terribly gun or hunter friendly... Best to go get lost in the bigger national forests with a dog, a truck, and some good friends.

[stovepipe]

Dove "shooting" aint hunting.

Rather do a round of trap. Don't gotta police yer shells, clean the birds or get peppered by low muzzles.

Kinda thankful the circuses I've been to were mostly DA plots so- it was contained. And, yeh, the mess was crazy but no worse than what goes down in the park across from me every weekend when the car hoppers show up and trash and tag my 'hood.

There's idiots everywhere- hopefully messages like this will reach the ears of the unwashed and open their eyes. Till then it's up to us to clean up after them, take the heat, make the stands and protect our hunting heritage. Cuz they sure won't 'till there's a law against stupid.

[527varmint]

I have never been to dove opener and never will go. I have hunted the DFG fields around brawley after pheasants where stocked later in the season. That was enough for me I would rather stay home. I like hunting cuz I could go all day and never see another person. Last thing I want to do is stand next to drunk guys with guns! One of my buddies is a slob hunter. If we aren't getting into action he shoots every crow that flies by no matter the time of year. I told him if he raises his gun on a bird of prey again I'm going to pepper his ass. He almost shot my friend three seperate times on quail opener and on closing day last year too. He's always loading up at the truck even if its in a parking lot where its illegal to shoot. I carry some buckshot now just incase I get hit i'm going to shoot back! Funny because his IQ is low, he can barely read, and his actions show it. Alot of times I don't even invite him. Some people shouldn't be aloud to bread.

I think they should definently confiscate all the weapons and hunting equipment the first poaching offense. Second time around no moreo hunting liscense and confiscate weapons, dog, and vehicles. Third time lock their butt in jail for a while in addition to the fines and take the property used in the crime and make sure it is a felony on their record.

Saturation of law enforcment and weapon/game bag checkpoints would be a good start.

As for cleavland NF around riverside areas its really crowded and hard to get off the road/trails. There is some ok hunting but I suggest only go during fowl weather or during the week. Also VERY early before the joggers get up there is ok. Got to have 4x4 to get away from the most crowded areas. As suggested just go someplace else. BLM land and other NF are good to go. I will call coyote up there and do mtn quail hunt maybe once a year during the week or fowl weather. I was about to shoot some guys dog that came into the call. There is a reason its illegal to have a dog off leash in NF! I told this idiot its illegal to have the dog off the leash and it is legal to be hunting coyote. He probably kept his mouth shut since I had a .223 on my shoulder and a 10mm glock in my chest holster. The hikes up there looked terrified when they saw me with guns in all camo.

[Freedivr2]

Jesse, you're right, Sept. 1 is definitely amatuer hour for hunters no question. Your thought has been addressed to some degree I know, because in past openers I've had my gun/license/birds checked out in the Yuma, Az. and Bard Valley areas by game wardens from Alaska, Wyoming etc. I haven't seen that though in the past 5 years, but the Ariz or Calif DFG would contract out that work to other wardens from out of state to help in the enforcement.

As far as having cops, meter maids, etc. involved in the enforcement, pulling them off their regular duty would decrease revenue that they bring in from their normal tickets and jobs and reduce the safety factor for the general non-hunting public so I can't see that ever taking place, but you're absolutely on the right track.

Bottom line is there just aren't enough wardens to make a big enough dent to make the difference we'd all like to see. So what to do???? Simple. WE can help improve this situation by policing it ourselves when we're out hunting and witness these slobs in action. I don't mean being confrontational, but if they're leaving trash, not recovering birds, shooting near homes, whatever, discreetly get their vehicle liscense number, write it down, and call the DFG (Cal Tip was created EXACTLY for this reason.....). And by the way, if you're hunting with one of those slob hunters, CALL THEM ON IT, just like you'd call them on being careless with the muzzle of their firearm. And look, if anyone sees hulls scattered or beer cans in the field, PLEASE don't walk right by them and ignore them. DO SOMETHING DAMN IT. Bend over and pick up at least some of them and get them to a trash can. Give something BACK to the sport you love. Hunting is a privilege, not a right, so we need to self-police ourselves before the jerks ruin it worse for us. We can be part of the solution is what I'm saying.......

[Varmint Cong]

True-dat Freedivr!
We had a clown near us in Yuma this year that was unbelievable! This guy was a walking, breathing, knuckle-dragging example of EVERYTHING I've always told my son NOT to do. I'll write about him when I have time (plus pictures of how close he set up in front my 12 year old).

[rem4me]

I agree with all said!! I was in shock and awe about the behavior of some hunters this year if you can call them hunters. I would say 95 percent of the guys that are real hunters are the best people I have ever met, but for some reason the dove hunt brings out the 5 percent that I hate!!!!! I have decided that from now on instead of being a nice guy and forgiving stupidity I will just confront them and tell them what the hell the simple unsaid rules are... I had guys this year camped out in the field, trash everywhere, trying to claim the whole public field, shooting in our direction, and walking around in the middle of the field in front of us waiting for birds. It is one thing to go out and get a downed bird but it is another to stand around in front of everyone standing around. I finaly lost my cool and confronted the guy...I am glad I did and will from now on. I have lost all tolerance for idiots and we should all correct anyone we see make any mistakes...PERIOD!! That way maybe next year they wont think they can do it or get away with it! Anyways that is my 2 cents....

[COWBOYUP]

Spectr,
It won't work. The problem isn't catching the fish, it's frying em up. I'll give you a few examples;

When DFG catches abalone poachers, they don't seize the boat and equipment used to steal them, they don't seize the truck used to transport them, and they don't seize the restaurant that sells them and no one goes to prison. Fines are levied that are never paid and the offenders are placed on probation. Because of the massive poaching that goes on, there are a fraction of the Abs left. It's no big secret who's poaching them, how its done and where its done. It's a matter of DFG wardens following a departmental policy NOT to seize. The Wardens hands are tied. It's that simple.

If you want to stop someone from shooting 50 doves you don't need 100 Wardens passing out 1000 tickets. You need 10 Wardens seizing 10 shotguns, 10 trucks and shooting a video of it and posting it.

Well said!!!

[spectr17]

I want to hunt with these guys. Fresno was the location given for this pic I stumbled on. Appears to be beer in one hand, shotgun in the other.

[stovepipe]

What is it with todays kids and self incirmination over the interweb? Idiots. Hope they get what's coming.

[527varmint]

I put Cal Tip on speed dial! Next time I see someone using bait on my favorite section of catch and release water that holds monster browns i'm calling with their plate numbers and taking photos. Also handy for reporting hunter harassment. LE agencies should all set up so you can send them photo's of the act in progress from your phone!

[Where's Bruce?]

While bouncing roe and dragging Quikfish on the Rogue River in Oregon, I saw a guy snagging salmon. The Warden caught em. In Oregon they confiscate your vehicle for this violation. The guy was driving a 250K motorhome! That some expensive nova.

Ya can't fix stupid but you can make it more expensive.

[Common Sense]

I want to hunt with these guys. Fresno was the location given for this pic I stumbled on. Appears to be beer in one hand, shotgun in the other.

Appears to be an old photo, notice the hair on Dicvk Cheney.

[sean english]

Never been to Fresno. Is it like IV? Lots of land lots of bird? Didn't see much around sacto last year. Come on IV wasn't that bad. U could if u wanted find a place away from all the idiots and still have a good time
By the way anyone knows any good cure for jet lag? I was in central Asia and came back last week. Still messed up: waking up at 2 am and sleeping every afternoon till 2000. Wife is quite pissed.

[RTG]

Spectr17,
This site, and you specifically, have a great deal of influence in the 'hunting' arena. Game wardens and game management folks read these forums and they realize a whole bunch of money spending/voting members of the public do as well. I'd love to hear what their official policy is on asset forfeiture. Why they don't do it.

It works remarkably well in eradicating drug offenses, prostitution, vehicle racing, etc.

Seizing equipment (evidence) to punish someone is called "field justice", and is not ethical. The reasons to seize items are to be able to prove your case (i.e. illegal equipment) or because the item seized is illegal in itself- contraband, like seizing 5 doves from 15 doves in one's possession on opening day.
When something is seized from a violator, like an unplugged shotgun, forfeiture orders must be filed with the jurisdiction. A judge then makes the decision to either return the item to the owner, have it destroyed or forfeited to the agency that seized it. It really isn't practical to seize every day items and file papers to the court. The courts wouldn't look too favorably to a box of lead shotshells that were seized as evidence from a duck hunter, when a digital image would work just fine. And if found guilty the violator could face a pretty steep fine for a box of lead shells.
Make no mistake, things are seized when appropriate. And items get forfeited forever. You just have to be reasonable. If you think about it, should a guy lose an unplugged shotgun or just suck it up and pay a fine? On the other hand, should someone who is involved in a commercial sturgeon-poaching ring lose his transport vehicle...

[Rodburner]

I fell very lucky the field i shoot every year has the same people showing up every year (blythe area) even a group from sac, i have walked around the field later in the morning when most have left and the place looks good nice and clean

[dblsmk]

I fell very lucky the field i shoot every year has the same people showing up every year (blythe area) even a group from sac, i have walked around the field later in the morning when most have left and the place looks good nice and clean

Rodburner, count your blessings. I think I know the area you are talking about, just a few miles from there it is sometimes really ugly. It's not only messy with spent shells, breasted out carcasses and the ever present beer can. but the people can become label readers, (label on my shirt), unless a word or two is used to remind them to back off.
Take the paved road going into 'your area', if the birds were there and I was the landowned I'd post that field in a New York second. the least I'd do is lodge a complaint with the LEOS in the area about shooting over the road, just to control the number of people jammed in there. A lot of hunters clean up even more than their share, with that there is still a mess from the use.
I hope you continue to have good luck with the people you hunt with.

[spectr17]

I wanna see the Wild Justice episode of the dove opener in the IV, that has to be full of wahoos getting cited.

[IK13]

I wanna see the Wild Justice episode of the dove opener in the IV, that has to be full of wahoos getting cited.

IMO, unless they have changed this season (I don't follow it anymore), this show does more to damage hunters and fishermen reputation than PITA and HSUS combined.
And unless the wahoos are suspected of being in possession of half smoked joint, or have parked in violation with the traffic law, the green jeans swat team will probably not go all Rambo on their a$$es....

[imperial valley hunter]

Every year it gets worse down here in the IV, I've lived here all my life and I have seen hunting spots shut down by farmers because of the disrespect (leaving trash, shells, beer cans) that so called hunters have shown towards the lands.. I see it mostly from the out of towners that show up and then just leave after they get what they want.. Im not saying all of out of towners do that but the percentage is higher compared to local hunters, I know of a few idoits down here that like to drink while they hunt and leave trash.. I dont hunt with them for that reason.. I realize that dove season brings in lots of cash to the valley during these days but that doesnt mean they can act like idiots and do whatever they want.. I witnessed a massacre of pigeons last year next to "el Toro cattle" near heber.. guys had 55gal. trash bags full of pigeons next to them and still kept shooting down more, I thought that was a little too much to put in a freezer, but i guess one can never what they do with the kills after they go home (feed the homeless?).. and shooting from 20yards from a street.. well i hope that we "the hunters that have respect" can somehow educate our kids/friends so that our hunting privileges dont get shut down in the future..

[dblsmk]

I too have seen the I.V. change over the last 55+ years. Just hammering on "slobs" is kinda like picking on an open wound. So the fix is not going to be fast enough to help keep lands from being posted, hunting areas will shrink, trash will be concentrated, postings more common, ect... Wardens and LE will/can only do so much. I think it will fall on us, hunters, to verbally correct the ones needed, maybe vehicle lic. numbers taken, I don't know. Maybe the DFG or someone can help to create an informal neighbor watch type program. If just a few people get busted to begin with, it might snowball into something better, like less 'NO HUNTING" signs.
There are people on this forum a lot smarter than I, who maybe can't organize a movement like that but know someone who could make it possible, For all I know there's a plan in motion now.
I usually don't get to involved in things outside my immediate space, but I'd be open to go the distance if for nothing else than my grandkids having a chance to have a good part of what I had.