1st Impression of BlackHorn 209

**BelchFire** · 07-09-2011, 10:31 AM

I took the Knight's to the range today. It was drizzling rain and in the high 70's, so that's reasonable when compared to the season I'll be hunting.

Having no idea where to start, I used the loads that work well with Pyrodex. I loaded 105 grains behind a sabotted Hornady 240 XTP. The group was WAY high and wide, so I moved the scope UP and reduced the load. My next three shots were 100 gr and were low and still wide, so I reduced the load to 90 grains. I got a better group, but it's still very disappointing given the hype and hoopla over this powder.

My first impression is

It doesn't group as well as Pyrodex, but the cleanup should be easier on an extended hunt in a camp. However, given the price, I'll keep shooting Pyrodex for now. Unfortunately, I bought two bottles because they're only 10 oz each. Maybe I'll give it another whirl at the range some day with a cast bullet. Sigh...... I wouldn't mind stabbing around until I find the sweet load, but this stuff is outrageously expensive......1st BH209 target.jpg

**myfriendis410** · 07-09-2011, 04:12 PM

I never tried an XTP load with Blackhorn, just loose 777 which shot well in my Omega. Using our T/C's we find it does best (using the Barnes 250 TEZ) at 110 to 120 gr. of Blackhorn. We also use a WW primer.

Did you have a clean, dry bore? Did you clean with Hoppe's? Another good sabot to try would be the Precision Rifle. Also, remember that the powder is for saboted bullets, not full-caliber projectiles.

Other than that; I'm at a loss. You would be the first person I know that has had poor accuracy with the powder. Don't give up; it's probably some combination that is not working well. After all you already have the powder.........

**inchr48** · 07-09-2011, 07:23 PM

Also BH 209 weighs lighter than others. Your charges are by volume. Weigh out similar volumes of BH and Pyrodex, then do the math on cost per shot. The 10 oz. BH 209 is packaged to be close to the same number of shots per container as a pound of other powders.

I'm wanting to try some Harvester bullets I bought. I've seen great posting using the PT Golds and BH 209 in the Knight rifles. I have some Hard Cast bullets from them also (sabotted) to try.

**BelchFire** · 07-10-2011, 05:56 AM

Hmmmmm, inchr; I never thought about the cost per pound vs cost per shot angle. You may be right.

I'll move up to 120 gr (cough, cough) and see if it helps anything.

I also have some 330gr cast that I can try. They're molded for a 45-70 at .458, but I sized them down to .452 and they shoot good in the same gun over 105 gr of Pyrodex. Maybe they'll be OK over Blackhorn. It's just so expensive until it's hard to get excited about range testing. Makes me wonder if I need to take up a less expensive hobby like collecting rare cars.

**inchr48** · 07-10-2011, 06:08 AM

Harvester has some sabots for the 45-70 bullets. I was thinking about trying the new Hornady all copper with the flex tips. Those things should offer some serious penetration. (Not that you need that much for Whitetails).

Were you swabbing between shots? If so, try not swabbing and see if a group settles in.

At least you have inspiration for shooting some, that's the best part. I need to "snap some caps" myself.

**myfriendis410** · 07-10-2011, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by BelchFire

Hmmmmm, inchr; I never thought about the cost per pound vs cost per shot angle. You may be right.

I'll move up to 120 gr (cough, cough) and see it it helps anything.

I also have some 330gr cast that I can try. They're molded for a 45-70 at .458, but I sized them down to .452 and they shoot good in the same gun over 105 gr of Pyrodex. Maybe they'll be OK over Blackhorn. It's just so expensive until it's hard to get excited about range testing. Makes me wonder if I need to take up a less expensive hobby like collecting rare cars.

Or Golf!!!!

**BelchFire** · 07-10-2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by inchr48

Harvester has some sabots for the 45-70 bullets. I was thinking about trying the new Hornady all copper with the flex tips. Those things should offer some serious penetration. (Not that you need that much for Whitetails).

As you realize, I certainly don't need 330 gr for whitetails. And CERTAINLY not for Ossabaw whitetails, but it's more an incentive driven from rolling my own. I already have the .458 mold and I like the bullet design. I also have a .44 cal 240 gr semi wad cutter that shoots nearly identical to the Hornadys, so I usually do my "trial work" with those, but this time I went full tilt so I didn't skew the results for BH209.

Yeah, I was swabbing between shots. I loaded the second one straight, but it was so tight I had to tap the ramrod on the roof to get it started. I couldn't load a third one like that. Swabbing was a necessary evil.

**myfriendis410** · 07-10-2011, 04:23 PM

The sabots are too tight. Try your setup with the Barnes TEZ if you get a chance. I know they are pricey, but they do a great job and are considered the most accurate overall bullet in a muzzleloader right now. You should not have to swab between shots, and in fact it may detract from overall accuracy. I once fired thirteen rounds, the last three for group (1/2") and then loaded the rifle. I shot that load out five months later and nutted a big hog at 215 yards.

**BelchFire** · 07-10-2011, 05:52 PM

Hmmmmm. Why would that be? Bullet is .429, so it's gotta be the sabot, right? They're Hornady brand; you'd think they'd be right.

I'll try the .452's. I have two bullet options; the 330 HP and a pistol round. I'm not too swift on hunting with the pistol round, but what good is a hunting bullet ....... that missed the target?

**myfriendis410** · 07-10-2011, 06:35 PM

MMP makes the sabots and there's a wide range of choices to fit a variety of barrel diameters. The Knight is typically tight (not a bad thing) but it requires a little tuning to find the right setup. All in all, an inline muzzleloader is probably less finicky than a lot of centerfire rifles, so that's a plus. It just might require a bit of diligence on your part to get set up just right. For the .452" diameter bullet they make a black sabot (if I remember correctly) that is a little smaller than their blue or orange one. They aren't expensive and you can shoot a lot before you run out of 'em. Remember also that a longer bullet is going to have more bearing surface and will be more difficult to load.

The 230 gr. XTP with an MMP black sabot might do the job for you.

**inchr48** · 07-10-2011, 07:06 PM

I've got an assortment of Harvester Crush Rib sabots. Let me know if you want to try a half dozen, and they'll be in the mail. They should help you get either the 44 or 45 bullet down the bore easier. Also, those Barnes are bad-ass in my guns as 410 has mentioned. A tight bore = TEZ's.

**BelchFire** · 07-11-2011, 03:30 AM

410, I'm using black sabots now with the .452's. Works well in the same rifle with 105 gr of RS.

Inchr, Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. But let me snoop around to find the powder charge that screws down the tightest. I fired 15 rounds Saturday; If I have to swap components, I'll be back at square one.

I just like rolling my own as much because I can as anything else. I may have to try the pistol bullet; I think it's 250 gr. Hey, a hit with ANY style bullet beats a miss with your favorite.

**myfriendis410** · 07-11-2011, 07:12 AM

I think you're right about the bullet weight at 250. I used that bullet with loose 777 for a couple of years and killed a couple of deer and a 180 lb. (gutted) boar. Folded him like a used kleenex.

I hope you find a sweet spot for the rifle, because Blackhorn is WAY convenient in the field.

**jeepman133** · 07-15-2011, 01:24 PM

I have shot .250 gr gold dot/deep curl..250 gr TEZ,.250 gr sst and a few others from my triumph with 100-110 gr Bh209 with excellent accuracy. if your shooting a knight i would think the mmp-24 sabot would probably fit that bore correctly.

**TonyS** · 07-22-2011, 09:02 PM

Last year I used BH209 at 157 yds for my venison :) Iron sights!

**warpheagle** · 07-27-2011, 05:56 AM

I am using BH209 with Barnes TEZ 290 grain bullet, and getting very good results from my Encore.

**bobbyrum** · 08-29-2011, 05:38 AM

Sorry, I don't get on here as much as I would like, but BH209 is definitely a ++. In my T/C Encore I use 210 gr. (volume!) BH209, (ADMIN NOTE: Per the OP, this should have been 110 grains volume) Fed. 209A primer & Precision Rifle 260 gr. Dead Centre (swaged lead) bullet. I also got my brother to use the same load in his Encore. Results are the same in both guns, .75" to 1" group at 100 yds. It is important to read up on BH209 so we understand how much different it is than Pyrodex or 777. Use Hoppes9 or other similar cleaner, not water. Don't swab between shots. Don't use unsaboted bullets. If you find a bullet you like but the sabot is too tight then find one that works better but still reasonably snug. In the fall before hunting, I go to the range, fire one "cleaner" then sight in. I then clean the gun (just my thing) & fire one. Once the hunting season is over I clean it. BH209 is not overly hygroscopic (moisture attracting) but don't leave the cleaning for 6 months. You will find a crud build up in the breech plug from the primers over time. I know of nothing that will break it down. Use a series of drill bits with your fingers (not in a drill) to work the stuff out. Just a matter of find what works best in your situation, but above all, have fun.

**inchr48** · 08-29-2011, 08:04 AM

Are you really using 210 gr. of BH 209?!!!

I'm guessing 110 gr. would do.

**myfriendis410** · 08-29-2011, 10:03 AM

110 is what we have been using in the Omega. I don't think there's any data for more than 130 gr. It would be interesting to know if they are getting a velocity benefit from the large powder charge. I certainly don't need more than 110 for anything I hunt.