Pup,started,finished?

[FeelinBirdy]

I have been hunting upland birds for about 6 years now and have not hunted behind dogs very often. I figure my success has been limited because I dont have a dog. I was looking into purchasing a Gsp. I would apreciate your opinions on if I should purchase a Pup, started, or finished dog. I have no training experience and like most work a 9-5. I know that doesnt suit well for a pup, but I have heard about a lack of bonding with a finished dog. Thanks..

Michael

Oh yeah any help with a breeder and/or trainer would be apreciated.

[GSP/Brit]

In my opinion if you want a hunting dog and a friend I would start with a pup. It does not take that much time to train the dog in the basics and then you could send the dog to a pro for the bird work, etc. The average cost of a well bred pup would by $400 - $500 dollars and 3 months of professional training would by about $1200. A strarted dog would run from $1000 to $1500 and a finished dog from $2500 to $5000. For a straight hunting GSP I would pick a pup from the Grief line out of field trial stock. THis line usually produces dogs with great instincts, medium range, and are good family dogs (not too hyper).

[Mt Goat]

FeelinBirdy

Where do you live ????

I agree with GSP/Brit, about starting with a pup and about getting a dog from the Grief line. Grief bred dogs have LOTS of natural ability and are great family dogs, and a pup will bond with you and your family better.

The level of training that you would want is up to you. Alot of hunters pretty much only hunt with started dogs but there are hunters that want a dog steady until sent to retreive. If your looking for just a hunting dog that will hold point until you flush the bird. You can get this in most dogs first hunting season with little training, by mostly just giving the dog enough exposure on birds and letting there natural abilitys come out. If you want more in a dog like steady to kill then sent for a retrieve to hand its going to take more of your time in training, but then like GSP/Brit said you can always go to a Pro dog trainer if your time is limited. It all comes down to what you want in a dog, and how mush time and $$$ you want to spend.

The good thing about buying a finished dog or started dog is you get to see it work so you know from the start any problems and strong points ect... and you can go hunting right now. BUT will that dog fit into your family ??? most of these dogs are only kennel dogs and not house dogs (not that they cant be) most started dogs are around 1 and finished are between 2-5 so will the dog bond with you and your family ??? ect... pups will bond right from the start.

If you let people know where your from it will be easyier to help give ref. on breeders in your area.

Larry

[Qbn Hunter]

FeelinBirdy,

I agree with Mt. Goat go with a puppy and get a trainer. The next time I get a pup I am going that route.

[Handcannon]

OK here we go,I been hunting behind dogs well over 30yrs,trained meat dogs and fieldtrialers for clients for about 12,took down my shingle to take a job with monetary rewards till I retire at wich time I will hang my shingle backup.IMHO unless a person has had the opportunity to hunt behind several GOOD dogs,they would be better off purchasing a fully broke dog from a reputable trainer.This will save you alot of time and tears.Then after you know what your really looking for in a dog by all means go for a little training on your own.Just remember this:training birddogs is tiring and frustrating due to so much repitition. These days also very very expensive, birds aren't as prevalent today as they were 20 years ago and bottom line thats what it takes to make a birddog, lots and lots of birds.In the good ole days when ya could move 7-12 coveys a day it really didn't take all that much work hehe.Prices for good pen raised can vary from$2.50 to$4.00 each for quail so if ya do a little math the price of a fully broke dog seems rather inexpensive.Also the results you will get with pen raised birds will never match the results of wild stock. Boy I hate to ramble but at times it's necessary. Most worthwhile pros have training grounds available to them so they will use mostly wild birds. I could go on forever but won't. Finally, go to some various types of dog trials in your region and talk with trainers and owners we will always afford advice and tips. Some of the trials should be:AFTCA,NSTRA,NBHA,ABHA,USCSDA and your various breed trials held by the AKC. If I can be of any help to you please feel free to email me or post it here as I do stop by once in awhile.. I hope this helps. "rambling mode off" Handcannon

[WayCool]

I'd tend to agree with HandCannon... the only gotcha is that its important to find a seller that you trust.. or see if you can go hunt with the dog before you buy. A fully broke dog is a significant investment.. so you may as well be sure of what your getting before you pay..

I've been training and trialing for about 15 years.. so for me the training is the FUN part... .but its NOT for everyone.. as HC stated the price of a broke dog is not really that much with respect to the time and money invested by the trainer to get the dog to that point. Its alot, I mean A LOT of work to get a dog fully broke...

Only other advice, is to take your time and find a dog that suits you... don't get in a rush and buy the first one you see...

Oh.. and the bonding thing.. I've never really seen that to be a problem.. a dog that loves people is just that.. and he/she will soon be your best friend.. for sure.

just .02 worth...

[FeelinBirdy]

Well thank you all for your advice. I live in Orange county the land of concrete and private property. I have been reading and visiting different web sites looking for finished dogs. I will have to say its been tough. I guess being out of the dog loop doesnt help any either. I was figuring for a finished dog i would be paying anywhere from 2500-4500 dollars. To me the price is worth it if i get a dog that does half of what i want it to do(Hopefully more). I figure the rest i can work on. Any suggestions or #'s to breeders/trainers in southern/central california. Yeah I understand about being patient and finding a dog that suits me. I can get a little anxious sometimes. Well thanks agian for all of your advice and help.

Mike

[Handcannon]

Hey FeelinBirdy, Fieldtrial season is now beginning so get out and about and rub elbows with the boys don't be shy they will welcome newbies questions kindly.I will ask around here in the midwest about GSP people in Calif. and let ya know when I get some current info.. In the meantime check these out and maybe subscribe to AmericanField. americanfield.com aftca.org bird-dog-news.com nbhadog.org nstra.org AKC and go to your breed then find your region secretary give him/her a call. Pointing Dog Journal, Gun Dog magazines. Hope this ain't spammin Jesse.. If your lookin for GSP's talk to the GSP people, same goes if your lookin for a britt., try to stay within the breed your interested in as it will help a bunch. I'll let u know when I can come up with some good names. Hope this helps. Handcannon

[FeelinBirdy]

Yeah thanks. I will look into it. Well I was thinking, what about so to speak mail order dogs. I know it is chancing since unless I fly somehwere I wont get a look at the dog and get a feel for it. I have seen that you can purchase dogs and have them flown from wherever to you. Seems there are alot more breeders/trainers elsewhere especially in the midwest/south.

[Mt Goat]

FeelinBirdy

If you willing to look in Northern California , or Southern Arizona I can give you some breeders and trainers. Just let me know.

Besides being broke or started, what kind of dog are you looking for, as far a range, blood line ect ... are you looking for just a hunting dog or do you want something you can play some games with too ? I know of a nice 2 1/2 yr old dog in Northern California that was trained by Eldon Hongo, and Carl Porter, he's steady to wing and shot retrieves to hand and backs, they're asking $3500 for him, he doesnt have the range for field trials, but will make some hunter a great hunting dog.

Larry

[Quacker Wacker]

I'm no GSP expert, I have a lab. One point, if you live "in the land of concrete" and don't have time to train a dog, will you have time to give these dogs the kind of excercise they need/deserve. I work more than 9-5 myself, but I know all hunting dogs and pointers typically more than labs need a fair amount of excercise on a regular basis.

Good luck to you.