AB962 passed now what?

[hiline345]

We all know what this law is all about but what will it really do? It's not going to stop crime I know this and you all know this. It can and will turn innocent people into criminals it will not turn criminals into SUPER CRIMINALS they area already criminals. Could this law start a black market on ammo for criminals, how hard is it to go over state lines to get ammo, it would be illegal for someone on parole to go over state line with out permission and we know criminals will never do that.
Realistically what do you guys think this law will do on the streets? Gang member's aren't know to buy hundreds of rounds they usually buy a box (50) and that is all. Arny shouldn't be allowed to make another action movie again especially if it is based in California

[1LJ]

Unfortunately, this bill has farther reaching effects than just red tape when you go to your local "buy your ammo here" store. It bans all mail order sales of handgun ammo to residents of "Kalifornia" and it bans all mail order sales of reloading supplies regardless whether it's pistol, rifle or shotgun. The problem is or more correctly will be, when the law goes into effect next year I'm willing to bet that the suppliers like Sportsmans Guide, Cabelas, Bass Pro/Red Head etc. will simply stop selling all ammo to residents of "Kalifornia" because they won't want to deal with the hassel. Thanks to the politicians and Arny, this is going to be one hell of a mess and it won't do a thing to keep ammo out of prohibited persons hands. I used to work the streets before I retired due to injuries, this is a feel good law that just won't work!

[dw33]

Why would reloading material be included in "handgun ammunition?"

Note: I read the bill, and it specifies "ammunition and reloaded ammunition," which does not mean reloading supplies, but stops people (criminals) from saying they didn't buy the ammo, they reloaded it. Still, it absolutely won't stop criminals from getting ammo. What next?

[SPURGEAR]

---

IT PASSED. 50 ROUNDS PER MONTH WITH REGISTRATION AND THUMB PRINT........ ONE SMALL STEP FOR TYRANNY, ONE GIANT LEAP TOWARDS CIVIL WAR II.........WE THE PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA ARE GETTING PRETTY TIRED OF HAVING TO SPEND EVERY WAKING MOMENT TYING TO DECIPHER WHAT SNEAKY WAYS THE POLITICIANS HAVE COME UP WITH TO EITHER TAKE OUR MONEY OR TAKE OUR RIGHTS UNDER THE GUISE OF ANOTHER LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE AGENDA LINE ITEM. OUR COUNTRY AND IT'S VALUES ARE BEING SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYED BEFORE OUR VERY EYES........WAKE UP, STAND UP, AND TAKE THE POWER BACK.....

AB 962 Assembly Bill - INTRODUCED

[Caninelaw]

What's next? Support organizations such as the NRA and Calguns Foundation who should be filing lawsuits in short order.

[Mule_Deer_Dreamin]

So no more rifle reloading supplies? Can anyone confirm this?

I really hope I get this job in Texas I applied for.

[dw33]

Read my post above. It does not affect reloading supplies, but reloaded handgun ammo.

[betelgeuse]

Looks like they are going to force me to re-load.

[dw33]

I bought a reloading kit. Between that and visiting Vegas and Arizona I should be ok.

[gundogs]

To all of the people who emailed and called the Governor's office asking our whimpanator to veto this legislation, I thank you.
For those who did nothing to voice opposition to AB962 or did not ask that the power of veto be enacted let me say this, You are the problem!
When I hear conversation on this subject I will ask how many calls did you make? How many emails?

I pray that someone will introduce a bill to counter this legislation or that AB962 is found to restrain trade and violates 2nd amendment rights before its invasive nature further degrades our freedoms in the USA.

[PVEH]

what a total joke!

[SPURGEAR]

i did call and email and fax. so did EVERYONE i know.... thats kinda the point seems to matter less and less every day what "We the People" want....and more and more what the special interest groups with the $$ want. Almost like they are buying the direction of our country and the rest of us cant afford to buy in on the game.....

[Marty]

Originally Posted by dw33

I bought a reloading kit. Between that and visiting Vegas and Arizona I should be ok.

DON'T be too quick to think you can just hop across the borders to pick up a few bricks. As with other CA-specific legislation, the AG's office will set out "alert zones" and "target businesses" where California residents may attempt to purchase ammo and bring it back across state lines.

Sales will die off in this state. Mostly because failure to meet the records requirement results in a misdemeanor count for each infraction:

Commencing February 1, 2011, a vendor shall not sell or otherwise transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition without, at the time of delivery, legibly recording the following information:
(A) The date of the sale or other transaction.
(B) The purchaser's or transferee's driver's license or other
identification number and the state in which it was issued.
(C) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition sold or otherwise
transferred.
(D) The purchaser's or transferee's signature.
(E) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or other
transaction.
(F) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on the
above form.
(G) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address and
telephone number.
(H) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.

One loophole is to have yourself declared a "gunsmith".

[dw33]

CA will have no authority to regulate ammo sales in other states. As for "targeting" businesses, well, good luck, out-of-state businesses will not be asking for ID when people buy a couple boxes of ammo in Wal-Mart in Vegas or wherever.

Also, it is not against the law, as it is written, to buy ammo out-of-state, it is against the law to sell handgun ammo in CA and not record it, or to buy over the internet. A lawsuit saying it infringes upon the 2nd Amendment will probably be filed, and it is a logical argument.

[dw33]

Originally Posted by Marty

One loophole is to have yourself declared a "gunsmith".

Or get a FFA. I am going to look into that one.

[yucaipa mike]

Caiforina is truning in to little russia and a GAY state and just your arm forces
police officer and only the rich can have (GUNS) and I did call an email.

[gundogs]

Originally Posted by SPURGEAR

i did call and email and fax. so did EVERYONE i know.... thats kinda the point seems to matter less and less every day what "We the People" want....and more and more what the special interest groups with the $$ want. Almost like they are buying the direction of our country and the rest of us cant afford to buy in on the game.....

Never forget who Arnie is married to and that he still has to go home at night.
You are right in that legislators can be bought that has always been the case.

[don766]

Ammo shopping trips to Cabela's in Boomtown anyone?

[aerospace90248]

I called, E-mailed and told everyone I know to contact Arnold. I was planning on leaving this state exactly because of stupid laws such as this. What a waste. I hope NRA or other start a lawsuit against this. Hopefully after this he never gets elected again. This is what happens when an actor gets voted into office.

[Marty]

Never had this problem with Ronald Reagan or Clint Eastwood.

Wait till the Senate races.

There may not be a specific law against transport, but they will be watching interstate traffic. They do it for assault weapons, they'll do it for ammo.

[dw33]

They can do nothing about ammo being transported. Again, it is illegal to sell handgun ammo without documentation in this great state, , but says nothing of buying in other states. No law enforcement agency can confiscate ammo from a law-abiding citizen (yet). From a convicted felon, yes.

[Stonepointer]

The "I am going to get mine before the law passes" mentality will not work.

A black-market has it's own share of problems that are completely obvious.

Reloading is only good for as long as primers do not run out. A person might be able to cast bullets, re-size cartridges and have plenty of powder stored, and do most of the things necessary for reloading their own ammunition; but the primers for cartridge ammunition are already on a special targeting list by state and federal authorities and can not be home-made, at least not easily, safely, or as far as I know, legally. The amount of primers available has always been much less than the amount of smokeless powder that can be put into a reloaded cartridge.

FFL licensing a person would be on a direct list and an easier target for scrutiny and possible prosecution. Same goes for getting one's self declared as a gunsmith.

California is a state much like a crap-trendy test balloon for the rest of the nation. Do not think that other states will not try similar programs and laws, once the wrong people obtain offices of influence within those parts of the current union. They are most likely planning on getting into those offices now.

The sale of goods related to firearms before, and at the inception of this country we call the United States Of America was also under the scrutiny of existing governmental offices of power at that time. Back then, most people did their own reloading also. They cast their own bullets, chipped their own flints, smithed their guns, and in many cases made their own powder or in some rarer cases actually made their own firearms. All these trades and ones that possibly tied into them were often desperately under the control of British Colonial governers. If an infraction was found that supported any kind of separatist independence from the crown, it was dealt with harshly and speedily.

This is part of the reason why phrases like "We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." by Benjamin Franklin came into being.

If the ability to protect one's self is removed, the ability to say what you want or think what you like will follow in removal. It is inevitable if this takes place.

California might quickly become much like Vidkin Quisling's Norway.

Lists were made of people who owned guns; they were registered and raided and removed.

But not just guns, but also any professions which could support any active resistance to this puppet regime and the National Socialists that controlled it.

I had a not-to-distant relative that was a quarry miner there in Norway back then. He was in possesion of blasting caps, a common tool of his profession, he was arrested, detained and shot as a terrorist. I would like to think he was part of an active resistance, but probably not, I just can not say for sure. It just may have been an excuse for target practice for jack-booted thugs.

Something must be done to reverse these laws and to remove the special interests and politicians that implement them.

Perhaps obstruction of interstate commerce, but once again this is a band-aid solution on fast draining and gaping wound.

Knowledge of proper candidates and removal of bad ones and being informed to the most current legislations is the best answer for right now.

Tax revolts, and district and state sales and finance boycotts would be the next best set of solutions.

Pray it does not have to go further.

"Welcome to Kalifornia, removing the bread of freedom one slice at a time." should become our state motto now.

If it does the rest of nation is likely to follow in it's footsteps.

[1LJ]

I spent a couple of hours trying to get the lowdown on what and how this law will affect the ammo/reloading supplies situation. From the people I talked to at DOJ it seems that as they see it reloading supplies are up in the air right now because of the ambiguous use of the word "bullets" in the wording of AB962. Does it mean loaded ammunition or does it mean bullets as a component of a loaded round of ammunition. Stand by, this will get interesting. This new law will ban internet/mail order sales of all ammunition so as I stated in my earlier post above after 11 January 2011 no more ammo by UPS, FedEx, internet sales etc.

[Locnload]

Better reread it. The way it is written is that it can be "fired from a firearm." A bullet by itself can not do that, and if they tried to include that it would be an obvious attempt at controlling sportsmen and not gang members.

[1LJ]

I agree Locnload, if we were having a cold drink and talking about cartridges versus components but remember, on this issue it's politicans who know next to nothing discussing which is which. In the original bill, before the changes were made, there was a provision covering components for reloading, it appears to have been deleted but again, how many times have the folks in Sacramento slipped in or changed something in the wee hours, after a bill has been signed, to get what they want. And as an aside, what do magazines, clips, speed loaders etc. have to do with controling the purchase of ammunition? But they're in the bill, surprise, they are all included under this new law. Also remember, the way this new law will be applied is subject to the way the DOJ/State Attorney General interpret it. For my money, I'm not taking any thing for granted at this point.

[jackrabbit]

Don't go too crazy on interpreting this law just yet folks. For non-criminal and adult persons ammunition is defined per PC 12323, which simply defines it as the stuff normally used in handguns vs the stuff used in rifles.

The sections which defines ammo as "bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence" explicitly limits that expanded definition as applying only to those sections which say a person cannot provide ammunition to a person prohibited from possessing ammunition.

So law abiding folks can still obtain components for reloading based upon the definition in PC 12323 which applies to law abiding adults in California.

[Marty]

And the inconsistent use of the term "ammunition" is where the politicians behind these restrictions should get a big fat 'F' - for failure, on their forehead. Of course, this should include the AG's office for not protesting the inconsistent wording enacted into law.

[Caviel]

I called and emailed the governor for AB962 and SB585. When I heard that the bill passed i knew the only result was that the Cabela's near Boomtown was going to be making a lot of good business

[pwdhntr]

I feel sick to my stomach, nobody asks "we the people"what we want as a whole, they just do what they want and could care less what the majority wants! Lets take it back and get these liberal pukes out of office, these bleeding heart liberal idiots that protect the criminal and condemn the law abiding citizen! I wouldn't whizz on them if they were on fire!

[dw33]

Let's take it back.