National forest map question

[Hunter2003]

There is a small patch of national forest land that I would like to scout out. The land is mainly surrounded by private land, but from a map I have it does look like there is a way to gain access from a public road. What I would like to know is where is the best place to get a very detailed map of an area so that I know exact boundaries of national forest land? GPS points would be very helpful but I'm not sure if it's possible to get something that detailed? Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

[easymoney]

Be careful using some printed maps and even some GPS units as they can be off. If you are not sure of where you are don't take the chance.
Google earth, USGS maps and a good GPS can get you very close.

[youngr24]

Google earth. zoom in and take a gps reading next to the closest point on the road. It won't show boundries but it will get you close.

[grinder]

I would go to the County Recorder's office and look it up in their maps. They will tell you ownership and roads and all that. No GPS readings though. Next bet is to go to the Nat. Forest office nearest you and show them the map and ask them about access.
Grinder

[map]

I can map it for you, but if you don't want everyone to know, better private email me.

[sertshark]

I've ordered a few BLM maps that show land ownership. National Forest maps are decent at giving you an idea. I can't think of much National Forest that is surrounded by private land, but there is a lot of BLM land surrounded by private land. You must have permission to access. Most landlocked BLM I've seen is gated by the landowners. Another thing you can do is physically go there. I log gates, fences, signs, etc in my GPS. You may go there and see property markers/ boundaries. This can be bad, if there is no access. But I've found it can be good at times because if there is even a sliver of access, clearly marked boundaries leave out the guesswork. It never hurts to ask for permission either.

[weekender21]

BLM and National forest maps show all the private, NFS, state, and BLM land. Once you've studied those maps, transfer the boundaries onto a 1:24,000 topographic map. You can order a detailed topo of any area in the country from MYTOPO.COM Most GPS units will get you +/- 10 yards or so as long as you have the settings configured properly. Good luck!

[oldflint]

What county is this spot in? If it's LA County I have file with every parcel in LA Co that I can put into my mapping program and/or get you gps points. There is also a website that allows you to view this file, but is not in real useful form. Site is here: Los Angeles County Assessor's Office - Property Assessment Information System

[tony270]

What I did was to go directly to the San Francisco CA USGS office. There I got all the information I needed to understand what the different color codes, lining and dot symbols represented on the USGS Maps.
There you can get a Section maps that show State, Federal and Private land. These maps are marked with the colors and symbols that you’ll need to know to figure out what land is public and what land is not. Once you figure that out you can purchase the 1:24,000 scale topo map/maps that you are interested and then get real good look at access. The smaller maps are coded too.

From what I know this is all you’ll need to prove you are on public land. Just bring the maps with you to show the LEO that you know the location you are in is public. I have been checked many times, and when I showed them the maps they said my stuff was together, and then let me go on my way. Some symbols may show wavy lines going north and south and some going east and west, as well as dots, lines at different angled lines and so on. You need to learn what these symbols stand for. All that information is available at the USGS and is free, the maps are not free. Take a map class if you don’t understand how to read topographical maps, I learned in the Army.

You may also want to know that some US Army Corps of Engineer and BLR land that restricts hunting can be crossed with unloaded weapons in order to get to BLM land that is open to hunt. To make it clear, you may not be able to hunt on the land that you would be crossing. You also may need to call the agency to get to up and up on that.

Many people don’t’ want you to know that information. Even some of the workers over at Lake Berryessa don’t want you to know that, believe me.

Good Luck.

[tony270]

Like these old maps (I did not post the matching map because I have it marked up):

[wshive]

I am by NO MEANS suggesting you trespass, but in California it's the landowner's responsibility to either put up fencing or post signs three to a mile (unless it's clearly agricultural land with crops, etc.) If they don't do this and they see you're on their land, it is not considered trespassing unless they ask you to leave and you refuse. You can check this out for yourself, but I was told this by a warden that came to speak at the DFG pig hunting clinic I attended two weeks ago, and I verified it this past weekend with another warden I spoke to hunting the opener in A zone. Helps give me a little piece of mind with using maps that may not be detailed enough.

[map]

My two cents-

The USGS 24K Quadrangle Maps are the basic building block for Township and Section lines, but not surface management. Surface Management is under the BLM, and and is divided into Geographic (Maps and GIS) and the Cadastral (Legal Survey). There is no overlapping of the two. Geographic is referenced to the Section lines on the 24K Quads, and rural property follows the quarter-quarter section lines on those maps. However, the Cadastral Survey is measured in chains and referenced to the Bench Mark Monuments installed by the Geodetic Survey. A few of these Bench Marks are marked on the 24K Quads, but accuracy obtained off the Quads is only 40 feet at best. Nowadays, with GPS and BLM Surface Management GIS Data posted on the Internet we can load the approximate Public Land Boundaries into our GPS. However, Geographic is not the Legal Cadastral Survey, so the property owner has the upper hand with his legal description in Cadastral. Sure, there is the same legal description at the County Assessor office, but the property owner has hired a registered surveyor to establish the boundary and we hunters have not. Even if we did want to hire a registered surveyor we would have to get permission from the property owner to enter his land for the survey. John Payne and Federalist Papers established the private ownership of property in this country, so beware of all county sheriffs and judges. The Federalist Papers did not intend for the Government to own property, so the law will always lean towards the property owner. A small patch of public land just isn't worth the risk of facing a judge, in my opinion.

[tony270]

I'll add 2 more cent:

I've used USGS Maps over the years to find general areas to hunt. I use the BLM Land Surface Map(the bigger map that I posted) to find public land that I think can be legally hunted. Then I contact or go to the BLM office that manages the land.

There I normally can get the information that I need, such as updated maps and the likes. Then I'll use all the information that I've gathered to decipher what area is legal to hunt. That's what we are supposed to do, and if I'm in an area that someone ask me to leave, I will do so and ask questions latter.

Even if you do everything right, the locals still might not like that you're hunting in their Hood. They do stuff like damaged vehicles, my vehicle was flipped over one time, it could happen to you or something even worse. Make sure to take buddy along when you are hunting in isolated and unknown areas, or have someone drop you off at the access point, and then they can pick you up at a established time.

Contact the BLM to see if the area has any problems with locals, they'll tell you.
With what wshiv wrote, and with the most up to date maps I have never been wrong.
PS
The Trespassing Law also spells out how the signage will be displayed, size

[tony270]

Oh, I forgot to add that I think that Maps maps are a good addition to the USGS maps and I would carry them any day.

Tony

[map]

bb

Originally Posted by tony270

Oh, I forgot to add that I think that Maps maps are a good addition to the USGS maps and I would carry them any day.

Tony

Tony,
I can save from the hassle of dealing with people. The BLM Land Survey System is posted on the Internet how.


GeoCommunicator LSIS

Make sure that you click the box on the right for Surface Management. It has been agreed that if there is no fence the rual property follows the Quarter-Quarter Sections of the Township. The Land Survey System will not show any moving of the fence line through the years, and most fake maps will. It's up to the judge, I guess:

Here is screen save of the X3a Hunting Area up in Tehama County. It can be zoomed in.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/...p-t33n_11e.jpg

Hope this helps, and remember to always go back to the 24K Quadrangle map and it's Townships. Everyone starts there.

Forgot to mention that the screen save only has the Townships turned on, there is an option for turning on Sections, Quarter Sections, and least squares.