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10-30-2009, 04:47 AM
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You know what If I was in this situation and was the only legally and with all the possible rights to keep the buck, I would have tagged it and keep the head, but offered a brotherly cut of the deer in half along the spine and give half to the guy who also put a shot in the deer. Along with that I would have given my hunting license number, deer tag number, and phone number to the guy incase he get checked by the game warden, he can have the warden call me and we will settle everything together. I think this is a very reasonable way to be friendly with our fellow hunters out there as most of us hunt because we want the meat especially when the rack is only a forky not worth mount as a buck of a lifetime. Even if it was a nice huge trophy rack and the other guy want the rack, I would ask him to use his tag on it and give me the brotherly cut half and all his contact info to me like I would have gave him. Afterall I might get to tag another buck with my own tag and then will have the meat of a whole deer and the half from the other guy. And hope for the best that the buck my tag will hang on will have a bigger rack.
We had two guys killed two pigs one time. Each guy took about the same number of shots but does not know who shot which pig. Each pig had only one bullet hole in it. Both were using .30 caliber high power rifles and the Barnes copper bullet entrance hole on each pig look the same. One pig was about 150 lbs. and the other pig was about 40 lbs. in the field. Two guys was asking each other who gets what. At the same time I made the suggestion that to make it even, they need to go half on one pig and half on the other pig. And that's what they did. Everybody was happy.
Does all JHOers think my idea is a good deal? At least it was with the two guys and two pigs. I think we should all practice this deal in such situation. Does anyone not agree?
L2H
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10-30-2009, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc2212
It is your buck. Read Fish and Game Code 2011(b).
2011. (a) It is unlawful for any person to take, mutilate, or
destroy any bird or mammal lawfully in the possession of another.
(b) For the purpose of this section, a bird or mammal shall be
deemed in possession when it is actually reduced to physical
possession or when it is wounded or otherwise maimed and the person
who wounded or otherwise maimed it is in hot pursuit
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It had been over twenty minutes since you shot it. You were not in "hot" pursuit, but rather searching for it by looking for tracks. You could not see it, it had ran away. You heard the shots from the other hunters. It was not in your possession, so it is legally theirs. Once you lost sight of the deer, you were legally no longer in hot pursuit. First blood only counts if you are in "hot" pursuit.
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10-30-2009, 06:03 PM
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This may sound lame to most of you, but if I was the guy who took the second shot, I would hand the first shooter my camera and say "take a picture of me and the deer". I would then say congradulations to the first shooter and tell him to tag it. I would then keep the picture for my scrap book. I have shot plenty of deer in my life and I don't need to take some other guys trophy. Karma has a funny way of paying us back later! I really hope you were able to tag the deer..
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10-30-2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmerdoug
This may sound lame to most of you, but if I was the guy who took the second shot, I would hand the first shooter my camera and say "take a picture of me and the deer". I would then say congradulations to the first shooter and tell him to tag it. I would then keep the picture for my scrap book. I have shot plenty of deer in my life and I don't need to take some other guys trophy. Karma has a funny way of paying us back later! I really hope you were able to tag the deer..
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x2. Well said Farmerdoug.
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10-30-2009, 10:31 PM
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I'm with FarmerDoug on this one. Shooter #2 gets a polaroid trophy and a handshate.
Chip01, great story, your buddy is storing treasures in heaven for respecting that 12 yr old and his first deer. very cool
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10-31-2009, 01:59 AM
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One year, myself and 3 other guys were walking a trail and one of them spots a buck and a doe. nice 4x4 about 100 yards away from us. when one of them said buck everyone started shooting. two guys free handed and myself on the and another guy laying on the floor. while every one was shooting I being a "professional shooter" I was trying to shoot. when i saw the buck i thought i took the safety off. with excitement i didnt realize that my rifle is a winchester model 70. it has a 3 position safety. THE GUN STILL HAD THE SAFETY ON IT" I the professional thought it was my bullet not working so i took it out and put another one in the chamber. had the buck on the cross hairs and again NOTHING. By then i was down to my last bullet then i realized what was going on. when i had the buck lined up i shot it, by now the buck was already walking away from us so i shot at the hip making an imaginary line to the vitals. when i shot i hit it. it ran about 50 yards and it dropped.
When we all got to it every one said that they had shot it. the buck had a part to where the bullet had burned some of the hair off before it whent in. I had a 270 two others a 30-06 and one guy a 30-30 with no scope. well the conclusion was that the guy with the 30-30 had shot it because of the with of the lost hair. It was his first buck so he was verry happy. I knew i had shot it because i knew where my rifle hit.
The guy even said that he would have it mounted. Since we always split the meet with everyone in the group i volentered to cut it up. the bullet was in the vitals. When another guy and me saw it he said "you hit it". I told him not to say anything because the other guy was so happy.
Later in the season i shot a 3x3 when i was by my self.
I'm with FarmerDoug
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10-31-2009, 02:42 AM
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IMHO, the First Blood rule should only be used if the first shooter made a good shot.
Do you guys think rewarding a guy that made a poor shot the right thing?
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10-31-2009, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmerdoug
This may sound lame to most of you, but if I was the guy who took the second shot, I would hand the first shooter my camera and say "take a picture of me and the deer". I would then say congradulations to the first shooter and tell him to tag it. I would then keep the picture for my scrap book. I have shot plenty of deer in my life and I don't need to take some other guys trophy. Karma has a funny way of paying us back later! I really hope you were able to tag the deer..
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Can't argue with that, Farmerdoug is right. But there is two sides to every story, so let me play "devil's advocate" and pretend I was the hunter who shot Aku 24's deer:
I was walking along a trail to my hunting area. Aku24 had shot at a deer thirty minutes before, but of course, I didn't know that or even hear the shot because I was still in my vehicle when he shot. Anyway, this big old deer popped out in front of me and was running like there was no tomorrow. It looked and acted very healthy and I couldn't see any evidence of a wound. So like Aku24 said, boom, boom, boom. When I approached my kill I could see more than one hole; but I assumed I had shot it twice. Before field dressing the deer, I followed the law and filled out and notched my deer tag. Just as I finish notching the tag, Aku24 walks up and says "I think that is the deer I wounded thirty minutes ago".
My tag is used, and there is no way I can get a replacement until next Monday. What should I do? I believe Aku24, but I never knew he even shot until he told me. In my heart I know that the deer I shot was healthy enough to run for miles and there was no way Aku24 would have been able to track it down. Had I not shot the deer, nobody's tag would have gone on it. What do I do??????????
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10-31-2009, 05:07 PM
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Amen to Common Sense's post.
But like I said in my previous post, I would have offered him half the meat of the deer.
L2H
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11-01-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Common Sense
Can't argue with that, Farmerdoug is right. But there is two sides to every story, so let me play "devil's advocate" and pretend I was the hunter who shot Aku 24's deer:
I was walking along a trail to my hunting area. Aku24 had shot at a deer thirty minutes before, but of course, I didn't know that or even hear the shot because I was still in my vehicle when he shot. Anyway, this big old deer popped out in front of me and was running like there was no tomorrow. It looked and acted very healthy and I couldn't see any evidence of a wound. So like Aku24 said, boom, boom, boom. When I approached my kill I could see more than one hole; but I assumed I had shot it twice. Before field dressing the deer, I followed the law and filled out and notched my deer tag. Just as I finish notching the tag, Aku24 walks up and says "I think that is the deer I wounded thirty minutes ago".
My tag is used, and there is no way I can get a replacement until next Monday. What should I do? I believe Aku24, but I never knew he even shot until he told me. In my heart I know that the deer I shot was healthy enough to run for miles and there was no way Aku24 would have been able to track it down. Had I not shot the deer, nobody's tag would have gone on it. What do I do??????????
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There are two sides to every story but the side you describe isn't even remotely close. I hit the deer high in the back, it had a gaping hole and was bleeding, it laid down for 20 minutes, I thought for sure that I hit lung but obviously didn't, when it got back up it was barely running and had a gate back and forth on it's back legs like it was going to fall down any minute (because it had bone sticking out of it's back), I should have put myself into a better position to take another shot (my fault), it ran about 200 yards and was shot by someone else while I was in "hot pursuit" (I was moving quickly behind the deer on the same path, seeing tracks and blood), when the guy shoots the deer, he was so close that it scared the crap out of me and I was afraid to even come out of the brush up the hill because I thought the guy might shoot me (you never know how excited someone is after seeing and shooting a deer).
Like I said before, I blame myself for not getting this deer. It is my fault for not placing a better shot and for not being in a better position to take a second shot. The deer was obviously wounded when the guy shot it. You could see that it had a hole in it's back, was bleeding, and couldn't run properly. If the roles were reversed, I would have have let the guy who drew first blood tag the deer. However, one could make an argument that I would not have found this deer if the other guy didn't shoot it or you could argue that this guy never would have had a shot at this wounded deer if I didn't shoot it first. As I felt then and feel now, it wasn't worth arguing over, just disappointing. We're all hunters out in the field, we can respect each other and we can all get along. And also, Karma will catch up with everyone eventually, good and bad. For me, whether I was right or wrong, I just figured that I would have many other chances at deer and I wasn't going to let this one particular deer affect me one way or the other.
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11-01-2009, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aku 24
Like I said before, I blame myself for not getting this deer. It is my fault for not placing a better shot and for not being in a better position to take a second shot. The deer was obviously wounded when the guy shot it. You could see that it had a hole in it's back, was bleeding, and couldn't run properly. If the roles were reversed, I would have have let the guy who drew first blood tag the deer. However, one could make an argument that I would not have found this deer if the other guy didn't shoot it or you could argue that this guy never would have had a shot at this wounded deer if I didn't shoot it first. As I felt then and feel now, it wasn't worth arguing over, just disappointing. We're all hunters out in the field, we can respect each other and we can all get along. And also, Karma will catch up with everyone eventually, good and bad. For me, whether I was right or wrong, I just figured that I would have many other chances at deer and I wasn't going to let this one particular deer affect me one way or the other.
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Well Aku, after reading the above, heres what I think should have happened: You should have thanked the other hunter for finishing off your deer and offered him a hindquarter. The other hunter should have told you that you are a nice guy to make the offer, but he doesn't want part of your deer. But this is not a perfect world, so I think you did the right thing.
What I can't understand is why anyone would want a deer that someone else had downed. How could you be proud of "your" kill if you were the other hunter?
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11-01-2009, 09:57 PM
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This happened to me 5 years ago in CO, on a cow elk hunt, I put two shots, (one right in the bread basket) but she was on a dead run, 90 degrees, at about 115-125 yds. She ended up, bedding down, but before I knew that, I had my dad run to the top of the "finger" we were hunting on but he never saw it pop out, so came back down a while later. We stalked into some thick stuff to finish her ourselves or find her dead. WE accidently jumped her and she ran by another hunter no more than 100 yds from where we were, never knew he was there, he missed her 2 times with his rifle, and finally when she had bled out no more than 100 yds from where he first shot, he finished her, basically laying dead, with a pistol. I watched the whole thing with my own eyes, but I was not about to run over there to WWIII. They didnt even give me a word, about those two rifle pass throughs that are mine. He/they tagged her out and I went packing, learning a good lesson.
CS, I thought you were mostly a bird hunter these days (I thought I read you posted that earlier this fall), and yet when I read some of your post they seem pretty opinionated on this issue, for not being a deer hunter yourself. TRULY SIR, NO DISRESPECT, as I have been on here for a few years reading your post, but if your not a big game hunter, you may not know about the time, effort and money many people put into each year, to have an animal lost becasue of a issue like this. Maybe I am wrong, CS, and if I am, sorry. I hate this crap about not good enough shot, you didnt put it down, blah, blah, blah, I have shot and seen animals get smashed, by larger caliber rifles, and still run 200+ yrds, "dead on the hoof". Happened with a buck my dad shot 10 yrs ago in CO, blew the heart up, still ran bout 60-80 yrds.
However, personally, I agree with many of you and CS, with if someone had to put my deer/elk/bear/etc. down, because of a truly poor shot, I wouldnt want it...perhaps an ego thing, "I technically didnt kill it myself?" at least thats the way I felt, and since I an not a horn hunter, I dont think the size...let me re-phrase, I know the size of the animal would not matter. If I didnt kill it 100% by myself, I dont want to take "ownership". Same visa versa, even if I saw the biggest buck of my life, and noticed that it had a mortal wound, I would put it down and walk away. Well I would wait and make sure someone was blood trailing and claim it.
Going back to the original post, I would agree he was in "hot pursuit", you have a mortally wounded animal that he didnt want to jump/push (good idea/eithical/smart to me.) Many times police are in hot pursuit of a criminal, that gets out of their site for a moment or two, but they are still in hot pursuit!! If you wanted it, I think you should have gotten it. Personally, because of my ego, or guy crap, or what ever you want to call it, I would view the trophy as less, because I didnt take the animal down under my own abilities/skills/luck/etc.
Just my two shinny pennies.
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11-01-2009, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives2Hunt
CS, I thought you were mostly a bird hunter these days (I thought I read you posted that earlier this fall), and yet when I read some of your post they seem pretty opinionated on this issue, for not being a deer hunter yourself. TRULY SIR, NO DISRESPECT, as I have been on here for a few years reading your post, but if your not a big game hunter, you may not know about the time, effort and money many people put into each year, to have an animal lost becasue of a issue like this. Maybe I am wrong, CS, and if I am, sorry. I hate this crap about not good enough shot, you didnt put it down, blah, blah, blah, I have shot and seen animals get smashed, by larger caliber rifles, and still run 200+ yrds, "dead on the hoof". Happened with a buck my dad shot 10 yrs ago in CO, blew the heart up, still ran bout 60-80 yrds.
Going back to the original post, I would agree he was in "hot pursuit", you have a mortally wounded animal that he didnt want to jump/push (good idea/eithical/smart to me.) Many times police are in hot pursuit of a criminal, that gets out of their site for a moment or two, but they are still in hot pursuit!!
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Didn't even buy a deer tag this year, last year bought one but never went, year before went once and came home with a bear(earlier that year shot a little forkie while quail hunting). Only been out of state once, antelope hunting in Montana thirty some years ago, but even then spent more time chasing birds.
I never said anything about anyone not being a good enough shot.
If the police are in hot pursuit of a suspected felon they can follow him into a home without a warrant. But if they lose sight for just a moment and don't actually see him go into a home, they don't have the right to enter without a warrant just because they are pretty sure he is there; they can surround the house they think he is in until they get a warrant, but if they forceable enter without a warrant they will be in deep do-do if they don't come out with the suspect.
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11-03-2009, 01:11 PM
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11-03-2009, 02:15 PM
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This question always baffles me, maybe because it was drilled into me from the first day I began hunting (so I thought it was obvious to everybody), that the animal goes to whomever draws first blood. I would not have hesitated for a second to hand over the deer and considered it common courtesy to put it down, with no expectation of reward.
I once crippled a raghorn bull elk that I pushed too soon that staggered down to a road, where it was dispatched by two guys that jumped out of their truck where it stumbled in front of them. There was some initial questioning of my claim when I made my presence known, but they soon agreed to let me have my bull. In appreciation, I offered to give them the liver and heart, which they graciously accepted. Had it been a 300-class 6x6 wallhanger - it might have gotten dicey though.
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11-03-2009, 05:59 PM
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So, you guys are telling me that if I poke a hole in a B&C muleys ear and a drop of blood falls out, and then he runs over a ridge to get away only to be killed by antother hunter, that deer belongs to me! If you sail a duck or a goose to another hunter in a refuge and he drops its, do you go ask for your bird? The first blood therory needs to be re-worked. every situation is differnt. unfortunatly you did not do the right thing by following up your shots and moving in on the deer to make sure he was dead. Instead you opted to screw around for 20 minutes while the deer sufferd more. You sir, did not deserve that deer.
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11-03-2009, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goindeep
So, you guys are telling me that if I poke a hole in a B&C muleys ear and a drop of blood falls out, and then he runs over a ridge to get away only to be killed by antother hunter, that deer belongs to me! If you sail a duck or a goose to another hunter in a refuge and he drops its, do you go ask for your bird? The first blood therory needs to be re-worked. every situation is differnt. unfortunatly you did not do the right thing by following up your shots and moving in on the deer to make sure he was dead. Instead you opted to screw around for 20 minutes while the deer sufferd more. You sir, did not deserve that deer.
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True in every aspect. I feel the same way.
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11-03-2009, 10:01 PM
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If your going to post a comment FIRST: read the original writer, than second: make a comment AND/OR read some of the others and make a comment on what ever your choose but dont sound silly boys!! No one is saying peircing a deer's ear (putting a small hole in an ear) counts as MORTALLY wounding an animal...which in the original post sounds like what happened. Has anyone who is posting seen and animal who has had a shoulder area wound? Pretty obvious because thats were we...wait...thats the general area I aim for. When you sight in on a deer that has been shot near the shoulder area, there's either a small hole with a little blood, a large hole with a lot of blood or many times there is just a lot of blood and two holes. Sounds obvious to many but maybe not.
Knocking an animal down to crawl around for the next couple of minutes tells me its down, mortally wounded, "sit back and light one up", you shoot it again, you're 1: going to ruin more meat 2: make a crap shot and/or jump it, maybe 3: put more holes in the hide 4: waste ammo. Perhaps there maybe others. Correct me of I am wrong a follow up shot is for a truly crapy shot that YOU feel is a crapy shot (gut shot, butt shot, "winged it"...etc) not when you've knocked it down and it maybe thrashing a bit.
For some here, wasting meat is not a big deal, because you are all after that HUGE 23 7/8" wide 4 x 3 with awsome "kickers", you may find in a coveted X zone.
If I shot it in the ear, my gun is probably off or I am shooting in a blizzard. Because the heart and lungs are near the shoulder...I dont have time for a biology lesson to fully explain.
Bottom line I dont know if there is a guy on here who thinks a deer they shot in the ear should be their's...we are talking about good solid shots, MORTALLY WOUNDING an animal. You can have the deer with holes in the ear! Let the other guy who nailed the deer, and has tryed to chase it down ETHICALLY, (track it) tag it out and you leave the mountain just a little bit better that day.
The reason I may sound a little "tweeked" is becuase there is really two types of hunters these days. And some people dont realize this. Those that dont have boat loads of money and work their arse's off both at work and in the field to hopefully get pretty much anything from a legal fork to that coveted 23 7/8" 4 x 3 with "awsomne" kickers because they just enjoy being in the woods and eating venison. Then there are people who can afford to kill the "spider" bull and spend 10 grand a season. Many people just forget what their grandpa taught them about hunting and ethics and conservation and right and wrong.
Ok I am off my soap box.
Last edited by Lives2Hunt; 11-03-2009 at 10:13 PM.
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11-03-2009, 10:41 PM
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I was refering to all the comments that the one to draw first blood gets the deer. Just because you hit the deer doesn't mean you mortaly wounded it. The deer was left for 20 minutes befor he tried to approach it! It then thankfully jumped to its feet running looking for another hunter to put it out of its misery.
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11-04-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goindeep
unfortunatly you did not do the right thing by following up your shots and moving in on the deer to make sure he was dead. Instead you opted to screw around for 20 minutes while the deer sufferd more. You sir, did not deserve that deer.
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The first lesson I learned as a green horn was never push a wounded animal. I shot a bad ass 4x4 whitetail many years back. Like a bonehead, I started chasing him. I was young, stupid, and had no patience. Three different times I saw that deer lay down and eveytime I got close, he got up. 24 hours later, I found my buck not 200yrds from where I gave up looking for him. What the coyotes didn't eat, the crows had. To this day, I still kick myself in the ass every time I think about how I should have just sat down and took a chill pill. What I should have done is waited for that animal to expire. A.D.D. and O.C.D. have no place in the field. With age comes experience, and with experience comes patience. Moral of the story, please don't misconstrue patience with "screwing around".
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11-04-2009, 11:13 AM
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This last september I shot a buck and dropped him in his tracks. When I went to find him in the thick brush, he jumped up and at point blank range I shot him again, high in the shoulder. It was a snap-shot and not low enough. Blood was pouring out and he slowly trotted/walked away out of sight. I waited a while and went to find him. There was a very good blood trail and I was certain I would find him. Four of us searched for hours and never found him. I lost him.
Now, if I had heard a shot after my buck had went over the hill as it did. And I found another hunter putting his tag on my deer, I would have felt robbed. But that didn't happen and nobody tagged that deer.
Did he survive ? Did he die ?
On a different occassion, I shot what I believed to be a healthy Blacktail. When I went to tag and gut the deer, I rolled it over and Peeeww !!! it smelled like roadkill. Someone had shot its balls off and it was covered in large sized maggots. Obviously the meat was no good. I wasn't going to eat something that smelled like rotting flesh. So, I thought I'd at least cape it. Not, it had a nasty rotting wound in the neck also. All I had done is put that deer out of its misery and nothing was harvested.
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11-04-2009, 02:02 PM
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Norman New Guy/Gal
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Totally off the subject...
My personal philosophy is to not push a wounded deer, but I don't want to jump into that debate, so I thought I'd tell two stories about a "wounded" deer....
I was in a tree stand and a seemingly healthy 2 x 3 walk behind my stand...Boom...buck down....I tagged, gutted, skinned and butchered the deer.....everything looked normal....a few months later I cooked one of the roasts I'd extracted from the bucks hindquarters....as I sliced the cooked meat, the knife hit something hard....It was like a ball of grisle...after removing it I picked at it with the knife and found a .44 cal lead bullet in the middle....The bullet was deformed on the front at a sharp angle....All I could figure that happened is that someone had shot at the deer a year or two before and that the bullet had skipped off the ground and then imbedded in the deer...The whole thing was healed over and the buck seemed just fine....
A buddy of mine once shot a buck that had a round hairless scare on its chest. When we cut the deer up we found as a closet pole size spear of manzanita that was 8 inches long imbedded inside the buck's chest....it was partially covered with grisle and the buck appeared to be in fine health over all....We figured the deer was running at some point in the past and had impaled itself, but lived....
I'm not sure what the point of this is beyond the fact that deer can survive some pretty nasty wounds (and don't run through the manzanita...Yikes!!)....Anyhow I thought you guys might find these incidents interesting.....
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11-04-2009, 11:14 PM
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Moving Up In The World
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All I know is I wouldn't claim a deer that someone else shot first, especially if they were tracking it. Heard of this happening before and the guys that shot it second claimed it to be there's and the guy who arrowed it, not shot it with a gun, let them have it. Gave him a chance to be back in the field and he then went back to his stand and arrowed a much bigger deer the next day. Now there's a story with a happy ending!
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11-05-2009, 12:27 PM
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Kiss The Ring
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Ok, here's one that I would not have been happy with.
A friend of mine told me how he was hunting in AZ ( he's a NR ) with a friend from AZ ( Res ). My friend shot a buck with his rifle, double lung hit. The buck stood still but he was dead on his feet with his lungs filling up with blood. Suddenly, BLAM, his buddy shot the buck in the neck and dropped it to the ground. He ( 2nd shooter ) than put his tag on it because " he put it down " My friend did not want to argue with him and let him have the deer.
Last edited by Glass eye; 11-05-2009 at 12:30 PM.
Reason: spelling
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11-05-2009, 07:07 PM
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That one wouldn't fly with me either.
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11-07-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goindeep
So, you guys are telling me that if I poke a hole in a B&C muleys ear and a drop of blood falls out, and then he runs over a ridge to get away only to be killed by antother hunter, that deer belongs to me! If you sail a duck or a goose to another hunter in a refuge and he drops its, do you go ask for your bird? The first blood therory needs to be re-worked. every situation is differnt.
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Not at all. If I shot one in the ear, or other superficial, non-lethal wound and somebody else kills it, naturally I wouldn't claim it. I have been known to possess a modicum of common sense (although my wife may not agree). Every situation is different, certainly, but my default position is if I put down a crippled animal, I'll give it up to the person who shot it. I hope others would do the same for me, but I'm not going to risk my life over it either.
Quote:
Ok, here's one that I would not have been happy with.
A friend of mine told me how he was hunting in AZ ( he's a NR ) with a friend from AZ ( Res ). My friend shot a buck with his rifle, double lung hit. The buck stood still but he was dead on his feet with his lungs filling up with blood. Suddenly, BLAM, his buddy shot the buck in the neck and dropped it to the ground. He ( 2nd shooter ) than put his tag on it because " he put it down " My friend did not want to argue with him and let him have the deer.
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That's a blatant violation of the code, is there no shame? That "friend" would have instantly become "dead-to-me-ex-friend" and I would never hunt with him again.
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