Poll: Best caliber for blacktails

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by BIG BEAR

308 is my top choice . great long range and short range. and if a big bear comes under the tree stand you can handel it just fine with the 308 .


THANKS KEN

308 is nice but the ballistics fall off. at long range, even with sst bullets and the arch is to high. but out to 300 yards excellent deer caliber. good choice.

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by suavegato

That's what I figured, just wanted to clarify "caliber only" for my response cuz there are many other factors to consider, a few of which IMHO would be as follows…

Assuming we are taking what you already have, what you “like”, what you shoot best and any preconceived notions out of the equation… I.E. you won a free “pick any rifle within reason” raffle. Then you have to figure out where you hunt… If you are in thick brushy or wooded areas and often kick deer out of beds etc. while you are hunting along, then you will likely want a shorter, fast site picture acquiring riffle; perhaps open sites or a wide low power scope. For areas where you have to be “quick draw” and get off fast shots, for that, the good old model 94 is hard to beat. I have one that I inherited in .25-35 and it has killed more blacktail bucks, panther, coyote & bear than I will ever see in my lifetime. Caliber selection for this type of gun, what I call a “brush gun” is less important, due to the close range nature… any of the above listed calibers and then some will work fine.

If you hunt in more open Blacktail country, where you might have shots out to 300 yards or so, spot and stalk etc. then you will want something with a little more range, longer barrel, higher power optics, maybe even a bi-pod etc,? For that, you will definitely want one of the more modern, faster, flatter shooting calibers… .243 is an excellent choice for this type. I usually use a Rem. 700 BDL DM in .25-06 but have a .270 I have used as well…

For back packing, obviously weight is going to be a factor, that’s when I use my .270 Tikka T-3 lite with a Leupold Ultra lite scope. The riffle weighs 6 1/3 pounds and the scope is 8.8 oz. Nice and light and gets the job done well too. If I had it JUST for blacktail, I would have probably gotten it in .243 but since I use it for all of my Backpack hunting, coyote up through Elk, the .270 was my choice.

Anyway, I guess my conclusion is to try and respond to your post about wanting to learn more about it from other blacktail hunters, if you have the luxury of having more than 1 weapon for the job, use which ever best serves the terrain and conditions that you are in at the time. If you can only have 1 weapon for blacktails, then I’d recommend something “middle of the road”. I’ve killed more blacktail bucks with a model 99 .300 Savage than any other weapon I own. But if I had to pick one weapon and one ONLY for blacktails where I hunt, I’d want something light to carry on long day trips and for backpacking, why weigh yourself down? So I’d probably go with the Tikka T-3 Lite. I’d probably also go with a 20” bbl. 20” is plenty long enough to reach out there accurately and still short enough to handle easily and get off “jump shots” when nec. A 2-7 x 40mm scope and for blacktail only, .243 1st. choice, .25-06 2nd. And .270 3rd. The .243 has plenty of range, plenty of knock down power due to It’s speed and it doesn’t make too much of a mess of these little Columbian Blacktails like some of the higher caliber & bullet weights do.

And then take it out and practice, practice, practice! Dial in some home loads, get CONFIDENT with your shots & yardages… Know what your bullet drop is at any given yardage like you would with a bow. I used to be able to whoop nearly anyone at a game of pool using an actual broom stick cuz I played A LOT, same thing with a riffle. WAY more important than what it is, is if YOU know how to use it! No weapon or caliber is an ample substitute for practice & skill!

Good luck, hope some of that was/is useful info. for someone?

I love how all of you refer to the .243 as a great round and go on telling others how you use a way stronger flatter shooting perfact deer round, 270 is great and 25 is great but the .243 is poor slow and for coyote, why boost a gun you have no faith in, .243 IS NOT FOR DEER ITS FOR COYOTE, DO YOU PEOPLE DO YOUR BALLISTICS HOMEWORK!

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by barel74

This is like asking what your favorite ice cream is. There is no right or wrong answer. So, with that said, I must agree with what some of the others have said, what ever you shoot best. I wouldn't go smaller that a .243, though.

YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID YOU GO LARGER THAN A .243 CAUSE ITS A COYOTE GUN!

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by bpnclark

It all depends on terrain. If I know it’s going to be a +300 yard shot it’s my 300 Win Mag. If it’s going to be less than or around 200 yards, it’s my 270.

THIS GUY KNOWS HIS BALLISTICS!

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by DanV

QUOTE (outdoorsman35 @ Aug 28 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Nothing like hunting mule deer , blacktails have to be hunted , stealth deer ! Unlike Muleys that feed out on a hillside quite often with theit big white rumps marking their location .

Best cartridge ? I shoot a 7 mag although that is not necessary , anything .24 or bigger that you can shoot well is good . I perfer a muzzle velocity of near 3000 fps and a mid weight bullet for a given caliber , sometimes those shots can be 300-400 yds .

I LIKE YOUR ANSWER, I FEEL THE SAME WAY

[dunderee]

Originally Posted by wmidbrook

I think all of the above would have been the best choice! I think a good frangible bullet like a Sierra boattail spitzer to the boiler room anchors them pretty good.....but, if most blacktail areas convert to the unleaded movement (not that dissimilar from a bowel movement imo), I'd opt for the largest caliber with a decent trajectory (larger wound channel) like the .308, .30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen, 35 Rem. Flip-side, if you are a good shot, the unleadeds offer great penetration so the smaller cal pills work fine but you're more likely to have a tracking job than with the more frangible bullets.

YOU WON'T SEE A .243 IN GUYS HANDS HUNTING DEER, CAUSE HE KNOWS THE .243 IS A COYOTE GUN,

[SPURGEAR]

I THINK IT'S NOT THE CALIBER OF THE WEAPON BUT OF THE SHOOTER.
USMC is shooting "Haji" out to 2 miles!!! with every caliber out there (military wise)
the key? Practice, some math, and more practice.
Look a childhood mentor of mine used to hunt with a rifle with open sight/bent nail (bent from where he pounded it into the scew hole of his front sight and then bent it left to sight it in) and he made head shots on deer and other game pretty much ever time he pulled the trigger.
No he wasnt the "Magic Redneck" he practiced allllll the time.
I shoot .308 and yes I've only shot 3 deer, but after my bullet hit it's mark there was no wounded deer running, cause i knew where it was going to go before I took the safety off.
Im no expert. I read the ballistics charts for my calliber, bullet weight, and FPS, and I shoot shoot shoot. windy, calm, raining, downhill, uphill, white paper plate at unknown distance till i can estimate (or rangefinder) and make a hit. I really enjoy it. Maybe thats why I can shoot.
SORRY TO PREACH. NO OFFENCE INTENDED.

Patiently awaiting the Pink Mist.

[richracer1]

I agree with all of those that have stated the best deer gun is the one you shoot best that is also of legal type and caliber for your state/provence/country.

I have used a 243Win w/100gn Nosler solid base, 270WSM w/140AB & 130ET and just Friday, 2 Oct 09, my 338RUM w/200ET to harvest CA blacktail. Funny thing is, the buck I shot, while he was facing me, with the 243Win/100gn combo dropped just as quick as the buck I just shot Friday night with the 338RUM combo. The 243 buck was a bit bigger too.

[suavegato]

Originally Posted by dunderee

I use a 25'06 as well, how can u put .243 as fast, accurate, its slow weak and a varmit gun, good for coyote, challenge me I reload and understand ballistics. .243 hunters are silly and need to leave the gun at home when it comes cali deer hunting. I can't stand the .243 even being considerd for a deer caliber, read the hunting books, the real ones none of them will recomend the .243. None of them.!!!!!!!!!!

"Challenge you" ? are you looking for a an argument? Slow & weak? Are you kidding me? You understand ballistics, LOL... Learn how to shoot! I have a Savage 99 in .243 that has taken OVER 100 blacktail deer... Nuff said. I don't need to "challenge" you, you do a fine job of making MY POINT for me when you post idiotic statements like above and below to common sense. Are you just borred and looking for fight online? - I won't debate you, I don't need to, the eagle doesn't hunt flies...

[coaster500]

I have hunted for over 40 years and have taken the lions share of my Blacktails with a 6mm Remington. I am a hand loader and a 100 grain Sierra GameKing has never let me down. It won't do anything that a 243 won't but I was weaned on it and they'll bury me with it. Takes a Buck down like a lightning strike if I do my part.

[coaster500]

Yes and by the way it make a great COYOTE gun :) I own 300WM, 300RUM, 270WSM, 30/06 but my go blacktail gun is a 6MM Remington (could just have easly been a 243). It just plain works for California Blacktail Bucks. My bow does a number too...........

[coaster500]

This is a standard Federal 100 grain load. I reload and can easily exceed these numbers, but what more do you need? In the 40 plus years of hunting Blacktails 90% were killed under 200 yards and I was never afraid to stretch that distance. I lived in Lake County
My daughter is getting married and I am proud and happy to give my old Ruger 77 in 6mm Remington (as painful as losing an arm but my new custom 6mm is in the works) to her future husband. I know it will make a believer out of him and a venison eater out of their kids.

Max Point blank range is 303 yds when zeroed at 257 yds.
Range yds	Path in	ComeUp clicks	Velocity fps	Energy ft/lbs	Momentum lb ft/s	ToF sec	Windage in	Windage clicks	Optimal Game Wgt
Muzzle	-1.5	Infinity	3100	2134	44.29	0.000	0.0	NaN	447
100	2.5	-10	2876	1837	41.09	0.101	0.7	3	357
200	2.3	-4	2664	1576	38.05	0.209	2.7	5	284
300	-2.9	4	2462	1345	35.16	0.326	6.3	8	224
400	-13.7	13	2269	1143	32.42	0.453	11.6	11	175
500	-31.4	24	2085	965	29.79	0.591	18.9	14	136

[suavegato]

Here is an interesting little tidbit I just came across while researching something else... This is a quote from Chuck Hawks, one of the premiere authorities on modern cartridges... Chuck has likely forgotten more about ballistics than anyone on this site knows. Here is a quote from his write up on the .243

"The .243 Win. will cycle through almost any short action rifle, whether bolt, lever, pump, or semi-auto. The .243 has become a favorite of hunters who want to shoot varmints, predators, and deer size game with the same rifle. It has also become almost the standard long range deer and antelope cartridge for beginning hunters. Recoil energy is low, about 10 ft. lbs. for most loads, and trajectory is flat, both of which contribute to the .243's reputation for deadly practical accuracy."

[livetohuntagain]

30-06 or 270 are my choices for most of N. American game.

[coaster500]

Suavegato is right Chuck Hawks loved 6mm rounds all of them.
Now that I have to shoot Buzzard, opps Condor bullets a 100gr or 85gr 6mm pill is bad news for hogs. I am getting over 3500 fps out of the 85gr Tipped-TSX from the Mod77 spits them into a dime @ 100yds (hope my new 6mm does as well). No fear of bullets not expanding and 90 to 100% weight retention. I didn't want to make the switch but that's the law. If your gun will shoot them they are bad medicine 2 hogs so far and no problems.
A .243, 6mm Rem or 240 Weatherby with these loads puts a whole new spin on adequate.

Wow I'm spending my wad, that's 4 cents !!!

[Fish Hunter]

Hi Deer Hunters
My choice is 270 win but I rather .270 WSM.
Why because it shoots flater and ndown power is as good as 300 or 7 mm Rem Mag.
Please Check Remington Ballistics chart.
here you go
Ballistics Results

Back to Ammunition Ballistics

Cartridge Information Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient PRA243WA Premier® AccuTip™ 95 AccuTip™ 9 1/2 0.355 PRA270WA Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.447 PRA3006A Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.415

Velocity (ft/sec) Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 95 AT 3120 2847 2590 2347 2118 1902 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 3060 2845 2639 2442 2254 2076 Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AT BT 2910 2686 2473 2270 2077 1893

Energy (ft-lbs) Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 95 AT 2053 1710 1415 1162 946 763 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 2702 2335 2009 1721 1467 1243 Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AT BT 2820 2403 2037 1716 1436 1193

Short-Range Trajectory Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300 Premier® AccuTip™ 95 AT 0.0 0.5 zero -1.7 -4.6 -9.2 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 0.0 0.5 zero -1.7 -4.7 -9.0 Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AT BT 0.1 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.4 -10.3

Long-Range Trajectory Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 95 AT 0.5 1.3 zero -2.7 -6.6 -19.5 -40.2 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 1.4 1.3 zero -2.4 -6.4 -18.6 -37.7 Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AT BT 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.4 -21.5 -43.7

Now 270 vs 7mm and 300

Cartridge Information Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient PRA270WA Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.447 PRA7MMRA Premier® AccuTip™ 140 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 M 0.486 PRA300WC Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 M 0.481

Velocity (ft/sec) Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 3060 2845 2639 2442 2254 2076 Premier® AccuTip™ 140 AT BT 3175 2971 2777 2591 2412 2241 Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AT BT 2960 2764 2577 2397 2224 2058

Energy (ft-lbs) Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 2702 2335 2009 1721 1467 1243 Premier® AccuTip™ 140 AT BT 3133 2744 2397 2086 1808 1560 Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AT BT 3501 3053 2653 2295 1976 1693

Short-Range Trajectory Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 0.0 0.5 zero -1.7 -4.7 -9.0 Premier® AccuTip™ 140 AT BT -0.1 0.5 zero -1.5 -4.2 -8.0 Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AT BT 0.1 0.6 zero -1.8 -4.9 -9.5

Long-Range Trajectory Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500 Premier® AccuTip™ 130 AT BT 1.4 1.3 zero -2.4 -6.4 -18.6 -37.7 Premier® AccuTip™ 140 AT BT 2.1 2.5 1.8 zero -3.0 -13.0 -29.0 Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AT BT 1.5 1.4 zero -2.7 -6.8 -19.6 -39.5

[abzonehunter12]

My Dad shoots a 270, my uncle shoots a 270, My friend and his dad shoot a 270. So I could not be the odd man out. I love my 270. Very accurate and easy to shoot. Have shot the 243 and 30 06. 270 is the perfect blend of both.

[bux-n-dux]

Boy did I start something.

[bux-n-dux]

I hunt with guys that shoot everything from .243 to 300 winmag to 6.5x55 to .270 to 30.06. All kill deer, all shoot well, all work. None of us have ever shot a blacktail at more than 150 yards. My dad has killed over 100 deer easily, and he has never shot one at over 100 yards himself in 40 years of deer hunting. He shoots a Remington 760 30.06, which I now own. It shoots a solid 2 inch group at 100 yards.

This is my blacktail gun. It shoots a lot tighter than the 760. It's a .243, and 100 grain bullets inside this gun have my good faith against blacktail deer.

[suavegato]

Great Topic and you should be fine with that weapon! Esp. >150 yards on Blacktails. Good Luck.

[upcedarcreek]

The question has no right or wrong answer....there is no "best" caliber. It is like asking which is better, blondes, brunettes, or redheads. They're all good, as long as you are familiar with your choice and practice enough to know how to shoot it. I've been shooting a .270 since the mid-80s, when my .243 was stolen. They both worked just fine. I've taken 30 some deer in California, and generally those deer were killed at ranges of between 50 and 75 yards.

[Lahontan]

I use a remington 30-06. My rifle has a magazine that holds four rounds. I am dead accurate with it, but it is not my first choice. I borrowed a .270 from a friend and was very happy with the results at 200 yds. I use the 30-06 because it was handed down from my dad,and I don't have the money to change. If I had all the money in the world, I would buy a backcountry rifle, something light, probably in a .270 model. My dad uses an open sight 30-30 and he loves it. It feels much lighter than my rifle. I also have my grandpa's rifle in my safe which has a tag hanging from it which says 7.62. My dad says that it fires NATO rounds and he thinks it is a Russian rifle. I haven't used it yet, but it has a flip up sight on the front with an adjustable piece. A fiend told me it is like a .308. I remember my grandpa hunting with a .308 also. Maybe this is the same gun. Any info would be great. I will post a pic and ask about it in a different thread.

[catchdog]

wow i have never hunted blacktail. only big whitetail here in corn country. but the ballistics im going to use is coming out of remingtons ballistics chart so i think they are REAL.the .243 coyote rifle with 100 gr rem psp muzzle vel,2960 ft lb energy 1945 300 yards vel, 2215 ft lb eng, 1089. now if it takes 1500 ft lb of energy to kill a 900lb elk why would it take more than 2/3 the energy to kill a blacktail 1/3 the weirht ? and if the .243 is only for coyote does that mean the 30-06 is onlt for deer when people have been killing elk, moose, and big brown bears with it for over 100 years. if the 243 is not enough gun for blacktail i want to know how the kids here are killing these big whitetail that field dress up to 300 lbs with a 410 shotgun with slugs. those Ca deer must be tuff . and i would also like to know witch hunting books are real if people like chuck hawks dont know anything .

[fossilman]

There is no best choice for any caliber to hunt any animal.............Its what your comfortable with and the placement of the shot and bullet...........