243 for Bear

[ds2]

Ok, hear me out. With the new "lead free" ammunition and a lot of talk of its poor performance, I have talked to a few people who have tested the new copper rounds. They, for the most part have reccomended going to a smaller grain bullet. I normally shoot a 30-06 with 150 or 168 gr. I will be shooting the 85gr. Barnes SXT bullet in my D8 zone and since I also have a bear tag, want to get some feedback on if this bullet is too small for a bear. Is the through and through hole of a 30 caliber bullet that much more devistating than that of a 24 caliber bullet that mushrooms because of its lighter weight? If the bullet fragments, it still transfers 100% of its entergy right?
Another reason I am asking is my 30-06 is HEAVY(Old Springfield Armory Sniper Rifle)! 243 is lite, I also have an X9A tag and will be hiking in several miles, and there is a LOT of bear sign in the basin I will be hunting. These old legs would really like to hike in 8lbs lighter.

[ROBruin]

I'll be hunting D8 and also have a bear tag. I'm using a 25.06 with 100 gr. Barnes. I used this onl my buck last year and he dropped on the spot. I say you're OK, as long as shot placement is spot on. I have seen pigs taken with the same set up you're using.
Good luck
RA

[BIG BEAR]

I would stay with the 06

[tamalpias]

I will be on my first bear hunt this coming weekend and my friend who will be taking me out said with dogs it is best to use my 45-70 simply because it will be a close shot with the bear either in the tree or being surrounded by his dogs. I hope to have pics to show you all.

[spotnstalk26]

i dont know if you know anything about sectional densities of bullets, but the .243 is too small for bear, it doesnt have a sectional density that fits for large, heavy game, its good for deer because they are thin skinned game, just look up info on sectional density online, hope this helps.

[ds2]

Thank you spot, I was looking for reasoning and sectional density is a good enough reason. Thank you. I'll lug the 06 and take pics.

[Sodhunter]

I have a little reasoning for you. You are basically deer hunting and wondering if your "deer" gun is big enough for bear. If your hunting area is like the ones I hunt, you lug your gun most days afield without even shooting it. "Most" days you will be glad you took the .243 because it is lighter. If you do see a deer, the .243 will kill it nicely, still happy. If you get the chance at that bear, a 30.06 will probably bring it down better than a .243, but a .243 will bring it down better than an arrow which has killed many. A .243 is better than a muzzleloader which has killed many. And .243s have killed many. I have a 7mag and a .243WSSM. The 7mag groups almost 2-1/2" and the .243 3/4". It weighs a couple pounds less than the 7mag and is now my new deer/bear gun. I do not know if your .243 is actually 8 lbs. lighter, but I also have old legs and for me carrying a 2lb. lighter gun if I am hiking for miles is well worth the difference in killing ability between these two rifles. Put your bullet in the boiler room and you'll be glad your rifle is lighter when you lug that bear out a few miles! JMHO

[AZ Jim]

Try this. It is approximately a 90 grain bullet. Lapua makes very accurate ammo that performs well.

Lapua: 243 Win. (6,16x51)

Depending on the size of the bear the .243 although not ideal, will do the job if you place your shot right.


AZ Jim

[JaegerMeister]

Consider this: most CA deer in D8 are probably not much more than 100lbs and a big buck would be in the 150-180lb class. Most black bears you come across average 250lbs with the potential of 500lbs+. The bear I killed last year was 455lbs. I think we owe it to the animal to ensure that we are using the correct equipment when hunting... so I would have to say that .30 cal is the minimum, in my opinion, for taking a black bear.

[ds2]

Thanks for the reply's. I am going to take the 30-06 this weekend to D8 and next week to X9A. It shoots better anyways with the non-lead rounds. Hopefully I will have some pics posted in the next week.

[ds2]

Also, the bears that I saw during the archery season and while scouting were on the small side in D8. Nothing like the 300-450 toads that you guys are talking about.

[gundogs]

Always use enough gun for the quarry to ethically harvest the game. The bear you seek will require a much higher BC (ballistic coefficient) than that of the deer. Your .243 is fine for black tail but not enough for the bear.

[larrysogla]

Back in 1979......I was deer hunting in the Los Padres National Forest and I sat down on a hillside overlooking a deer trail hoping to ambush a buck. After a while of quietly waiting to ambush a buck............suddenly I heard this noise coming from the bottom of the hill which was overgrown with dense brush. Then without warning a black bear popped out at the bottom of the hillside. It was moving towards my direction.......when it winded me and it quickly turned back and promptly went up the other side going up on the opposite hillside which was overgrown with small trees and thick brush. I saw branches of small trees being broken like toothpicks as the bear just charged uphill through the thick undergrowth like a bulldozer. I estimate the fat, nice black bear to be somewhere in the vicinity of 250-350 lbs. I did not have a bear tag at the time so I did not harvest the black bear with my Winchester 70 XTR in 30-'06 loaded with Remington 150 grn. Corelokts. I am sure my 30-'06 would have nailed that bruin at that close range of about 50 yds. I am a believer in a minimum of 30 caliber for my hunting adventures. I don't like the prospects of going after wounded big game animals in the thick brush with their sharp horns, cutting tusks and knife like claws and stabbing canine incisors. I like to shoot with calibers that will nail 'em and save my sorry rear end from attacks by angry, wounded animals.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

[markt800]

243. is just fine for bear. i whould shoot anything in north america with my 25-06 and a barnes tsx, without thinking twice. no doubt in my mind that you whould have pass through on any bear you find, just don't make lame glory shots from 300 + yards.


please people don't talk s*%t on the barnes tsx, it really is one of the best bullets out there.

[sidepass]

The 243 could do it. The 30-06 will do it.! JMO

sidepass

[CATManReid]

I've shot both my bears with my 30-06. Pass throughs on both with Barnes 180 gr. bullets. BUT, both shots have been with 80 yards so that's pretty much granted with close shots like that.

On the other hand, my buddy has killed every one of his bears with a .270. The last bear he shot out weighed my 400# boar by at least 100# or better and made the state book (it was a toad...look in the Bear Forum for the thread "I thought mine was big".) If you ask me, the .20 caliber did the job just as well as my .30 caliber. JMO.

[Dain V]

Of course it is all about shot placement. But if both calibers are put in that perfect sweet spot wont the 06 do more damage? 85 grain .243 or a 180 grain 30 06, seems like an easy answear for me. 30 06 in the shoulder blade, followed with one through the vitals. At least that is how my buddy who guides for bears told me how to do it.

[larrysogla]

A 223. with 60 grn. TSX will kill a Polar bear, Grizzly or Brown Bear.............if shot thru the heart or thru the brain or pumped enough bullets thru the lungs with the bullet path unobstructed by massive shoulder bones..............However, for me the issue is really about reaching the vitals even if punching thru the shoulder bones is the only trajectory available i.e. trees/obstacles in the way etc. It is nice to have a clear shot to the spine, brain, heart or double lungs....................problem is many times the shoulder shot to the vitals is the only available shot. IMHO a 30-'06 would better serve that purpose. Nice to have clear shots to the vitals but that is not always available.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

[JaegerMeister]

Originally Posted by larrysogla

A 223. with 60 grn. TSX will kill a Polar bear, Grizzly or Brown Bear.............if shot thru the heart or thru the brain or pumped enough bullets thru the lungs with the bullet path unobstructed by massive shoulder bones..............However, for me the issue is really about reaching the vitals even if punching thru the shoulder bones is the only trajectory available i.e. trees/obstacles in the way etc. It is nice to have a clear shot to the spine, brain, heart or double lungs....................problem is many times the shoulder shot to the vitals is the only available shot. IMHO a 30-'06 would better serve that purpose. Nice to have clear shots to the vitals but that is not always available.
'Nuff said
larrysogla

I agree. Though it's perhaps possible to kill an Mac Truck by hitting it in some lucky spot, it's best to use the proper caliber to match your game. For black bear I would agree that anything in the .270 - .338 is not too much and not too little.

[soupr]

I do not shoot a .243 but I have two friends that both harvested black bears with their .243 with a one shot kill. It is all about placement. I would have to say a .243 would do the job. Crap it is a bullet going through a black bear, it's not like you your in Africa going for cape buffalo. I would say the .243 would kill just about anything in North America. Just remember to chamber in a second round.

[TonyS]

There is a story told by the old afrikaaners about an indian who had killed an elephant with a .22. He was bet that he could not do it again. He did and collected on the bet. I'm not going to cite the reference but if you look it's there.

For my money, I wouldn't try. I'm hunting this year with a .270. I hope I take a deer. But after I bone it out I am travelling up the trail, day or night because I don't want to be the position to defend myself with a .270 in an area I know holds a 400-500 lb class bear.

Just my feelings. Hope you caught my drift.

[DL3]

I ask you this; Do you feel confindent shooting the 243? If so I would say shoot it, and don't let anyone try and tell you other wise. I've bear hunted for about 25 years although most of it has been behind dogs there have been a few that were on the ground, either stalking or calling. I've seen bears taken with all type's of hand guns from 45 acp to a 454. I watched a 12 year old ( my son ) take an almost 300lb bear with a 410 shotgun using a slug, one shot and it was done. I collect winchester lever guns and 2 years ago I got the cream of the crop of a Model 94 in a 25.35, I hunted deer and bear with that little gun although I did not take a deer with it or a bear my confindance in it was high because it had been used by the old owner ( my grandpa ) to take many deer and a few bears with no problems. So I would say use the 243 just be sure of you shot and make it count.

[Jagermeister]

Another vote for the .243 being enough gun. Black bears are not that heavy boned and they are light skinned. You can't compare them to a hog of the same weight for example. The general rule is that any deer gun will kill a black bear okay. A .243 is a deer rife.

That's just my opinion. I do however agree that a 30 caliber rifle will also kill a black bear well. I killed all my bears with a 30-30 except for the first one (.357).

George

[m57jager]

I do not shoot a .243 but I have two friends that both harvested black bears with their .243 with a one shot kill. It is all about placement. I would have to say a .243 would do the job. Crap it is a bullet going through a black bear, it's not like you your in Africa going for cape buffalo. I would say the .243 would kill just about anything in North America. Just remember to chamber in a second round.

Another vote for the .243 being enough gun. Black bears are not that heavy boned and they are light skinned. You can't compare them to a hog of the same weight for example. The general rule is that any deer gun will kill a black bear okay. A .243 is a deer rife.

That's just my opinion. I do however agree that a 30 caliber rifle will also kill a black bear well. I killed all my bears with a 30-30 except for the first one (.357).

I'll second these statements. Black bear are not super tough, they go down like deer. Think about how many go down by arrow. An arrow gets passthrus at 250 feet per second and your 243 is traveling at 3000+ with a passthru bullet. Hmmm. As Jager said, a pig is a tougher prey to bring down and my buddy hunts pigs religously with a 22-250 one shot kills. My dad's lifetime boone & crockett monster(the one in the avatar) went down with a 30-30. I've seen many drop to a 357. Not ideal, but it'll work. That being said, even with a 30 caliber and the new copper bullets your bear is probably not going to hit the floor immediately. Your advantage of the 30 cal is range(longer shots that aren't ideal with the 243). I say take the rifle that you have the most confidence with. I bought a 270 wsm and topped with a Nikon Monarch, sweet rifle. This year the first chance I had to take an animal with it I missed a 30+" CA buck at a simple sidehill 200 yard shot. I've never missed my target with my 300, NEVER. While it was surely my fault, I have zero confidence in this gun now and don't even want to keep it. I've got to work on that psychological issue. Take the rifle you shoot like Carlos Hathcock with.

[Michael Jones]

bigger is better!

[quack_head]

You easily could take a bear with a 270. My dad shot a big sow last year that was in the 300-350lb range. One shot one kill 270 weatherby with 130 grain barnes.