View Full Version : recoil similarities - 12ga 3.5 mag is close to what?
05-02-2006, 07:09 PM
it occurs to me that many hunters fear the recoil of large caliber rifles....but at the same time push 3.5 mag shotgun loads into turkey and geese with regularity.....my question for those who may have thoughts on this is "what caliber rifle recoil would be similar to the typical punch that a 12 ga. 3.5 mag shell produces??
is there a chart comparison of felt recoil of the typical single projectile rifle caliber used for deer and larger game which also includes the large shotgun recoil figures??
05-03-2006, 05:28 AM
A calculator program, but may help you.
05-03-2006, 12:44 PM
ok....think I found my answer.....went to Chuck Hawks tables for both rifle and shotgun.....here is what I found...
listings included 12 ga 3" and 10 ga 3.5".... and the rifles included a significant aray of calibers.....without a 12 ga. 3.5" listed I had to interpolate an answer based on the provided data.... recoil was identified as energy in foot pounds for both shotguns and rifles....rifle weight was also identified.....data breakdown is as follows....
12 ga. 3" was through a 8.75 lb. gun shooting "1 7/8 oz" of shot at 1210 MV ---- recoil energy is 54 ft. lbs
10 ga. 3.5" through a 10.5 lb gun shooting "2 1/4 oz" at 1210 MV, also ----- recoil energy listed as 63 lbs
I would guess that the 12 ga 3.5 would be at least toward 60 lbs, if not slightly over
now the interesting part: expressing the rifle weight and ft lbs. of energy yields some interesting comparisons
.300 Wby Mag - 150 gr @ 3400 MV through 9.25 lbs of gun weight ---- recoil energy is 24.6 lbs
.340 Wby Mag - 200 gr @3100 MV through 10 lbs of gun ----- recoil energy of 29.6 lbs
.375 H&H Mag - 270 gr @ 2690 MV through 9 lbs of gun ----- recoil energy of 36.1 lbs
.378 Wby Mag - 300 gr @ 2900 MV through 10.25 lbs of gun ------ recoil energy of 71.1 lbs
.416 Rigby - 400 gr @ 2400 MV through 10 lbs of gun ---- recoil energy of 58.1 lbs
.458 Win. Mag - 500 gr @ 2100 MV through 9 lbs of gun ---- recoil energy of 62.3 lbs
.460 Wby Mag - 500 gr @ 2600 MV through 11.25 lbs of gun ----- recoil energy of 99.6 lbs
These are very interesting data points for those who have issues with putting a heavy caliber big bore to shoulder but at the same time will put a big 12 ga. load to shoulder on a bench when we pattern our shotguns for spring turkey.....I for one put a new BPS 12 ga NWTF 3.5 to my shoulder this way a couple of weeks ago to get ready for spring gobbler....patterned the turkey full choke at 15, 25, 35 and 45 yards for two different federal 3.5" load types....had a nice case of recoil rash on the shoulder....was enough to prompt taking it to the gunsmith to have a new kickeez installed to replace the factory pad.....but all of this was instructive to me....I have never ventured past a Wby .300 Mag in centerfire....and the notion of putting a Brown Bear load up, not to mention a load for African Big Game, was something that just never held much attraction....so these comparisons are interesting and informative....hope they are to you as well
05-05-2006, 09:29 AM
In my own, personal experience, I don't think shotgun recoil and rifle recoil are especially comparable. I think the biggest thing is a difference in the way the force is delivered... although that may be more perception than reality. And I have never fired a real, big-bore rifle to compare with shotguns (of which I've fired many). But I do know that my 30-06, loaded with hot 180gr loads is way more punishing then my 12ga with turkey or goose loads.
This is a totally non-technical perspective, I realize, and I also understand that the felt recoil has a lot to do with several factors, from the design of the stock to the balance and weight of the firearm to the shooting position and form of the person pulling the trigger.
Now there are folks out there who might argue this with me, and I'm the first to admit that all of my "theory" comes only from my own experience and not from books, tables, or charts. But I'd argue that felt recoil can vary significantly from actual recoil.
For example, by simply replacing the original stock on my 30-06 with one that offers more drop, the felt recoil diminished dramatically. The new stock is a composite, and weighs about six ounces LESS than the wood stock it replaced, which, if I relied on charts and tables, would suggest an INCREASE in recoil... and it actually may have increased, but the FELT recoil is less.
It's almost all physics (I say almost, because there is also a psychosomatic aspect of felt recoil that shouldn't be dismissed), which can be quantified and diagrammed, but none of it is as simple as providing a single chart and calling it good.
Anyway, point is, while those equations and tables provide some interesting food for thought, I don't think they hold much relevance to what shooters actually feel when they touch off a round.
05-07-2006, 01:41 AM
I totally agree with SpeckMisser. I do not feel or even remember the recoil when firing on hogs wiith my .300Win.Mag. loaded with 180 grn. bullets. Even the sound of the shot seems muted and sounds like coming from a few blocks away. The same gun firing the same bullet at the bench, is intolerable recoil wise and noise wise without my PAST Magnum shoulder recoil shield and without a pair of ear protectors. I believe it is the adrenaline and the mental lock focusing on the hogs and blocking out the noise and the recoil. Felt recoil is what the hunter responds to in terms of flinching and jerking the trigger. Recoil is measurable in exact foot pounds of recoil energy but it is all subjective to the hunter who is either sensitive or tolerant to felt recoil. Recoil is not even in my thoughts when hammering hogs with whatever gun I am using. I am just too preoccupied with making sure that I drill a hole in that hog.'Nuff said.
And then if you are shooting a solid saboted slug like a 2 & 3/4 it has a decent little pop. Then if you shoot a solid saboted 3" slug like a Buckhammer, you are going to go "WOW!" I bet those 3" hammers kick harder than 3.5" gooseloads. Those slugs really kick hard because of the size of the projectile I would guess. I put a Remington R3 recoil pad on my slug gun and it makes a huge difference. I have to back Larry & Speck, lots of variables, and it may look like one is nastier on paper, but the real bottom line is what it does to the shooter, what the shooter feels. I never notice the kick or sound of a gun when I am shooting it at game. Like Larry said, it only becomes irritating for me at the range when I am sighting in
05-27-2006, 06:10 PM
All I can add is that I have shot 3 inch slugs out of my 12-gauge 18 inch barrel. The same day I also shot a 45-70. Both were firsts for me. I found the kicks to be very similar except that the 45-70 was over with a lot faster. There was definitly different factors involved though. I had shot the 12-gauge with my elbos rested on the hood of the buggy and when I shot the 45-70 it was offhand standing up. Both times the 12 bounced up and gave me a good smack on the cheak. When I shot the 45-70, I also had a buffalo 20 feet away so... I was very curious about the recoil at the time and made the effort to pay attention to it.
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