lazy deer

[Greystoke]

I moved a cam to this fence crossing hoping to get one jumping the fence. I guess there are a bunch of lazy deer here. I filled up a 128 mb card in 3 days and every time I got one crossing the fence, it went under. Here's a small buck going under.

[PaPaBob]

Greystoke: Very tell picture here. Love it. Over the past several years of watching the Outdoor channel I have noticed quite a number of bucks with a bare spot above their shoulder area. I was perplexed with this and I had though it was a spot bared by licking or a product of the rut. Until, however, I saw a show where a really nice buck was working his way through some thick stuff and he went under a barbed wire fence rather than jump it. It was really tight in there and he just put that big rack under the bottom stand and contorted his body to go under. The wire touched his body right above his shoulders when it was at its tightest. He had the telltale bare spot on his back.

Since them I watch for this bare spot on big bucks in my area and keep looking for fence crossings for setting up on a nice buck.

Just an obsevation.

[HKK]

PaPaBob,

I have wondered that myself, wouldn't you also expect that a doe would have this bald spot. I haven't seen this but clearly they don't make television like the bucks.

[PaPaBob]

Yes, I would suspect the bigger ones would have this bald spot. But, most are smaller in stature and when they slide under the pressure exerted due to their smaller size wouldn't be as great. Their chest and shoulder area isn't as deep so maybe that is why you don't see it as much. Keep an eye out on the deer shows and see if you don't start seeing lots of bucks with this condition.

[Fred Bear]

interesting. I guess the big ones dont want to show them selves too often and keep low.

[Badgerbuckhunter]

The bald spot comes from them doing the lick branch thing they do above the scapes and is caused by the horns (G2's) rubbing on the shoulder area.

[KANSASBUCKHUNTER]

I am with Badger on this one. While the smaller deer will go under fences regularly, the larger ones will jump most of the time. The bald areas are from the G2's rubbing on their backs. You will see in the early summer the hair has grown back.

[PaPaBob]

Well, I am going to stand by my posting on this one. I have watched the licking branch videos for just this issue and the G2's have to be really long to reach the back, almost unnaturally long. As for always jumping I thought so too but after watching lots of video's for just this issue I keep seeing many bucks going under the fences as well. I have seen huge bucks twist and turn their heads under the bottom strand and and then slide their bodies under. The lower strand( see the picture above of this small buck ) hits then right where the bald spot shows up.

There are many fence crossings in heavy cover that these bucks have to negotiate. Sure they jump the fences in the open where there is clearance but back in the timber where they hang most of the time jumping just isn't an option. Going under is easier and they will always take the easy route. Especially as their body size increases.

I have also seen this bald spot on smaller bucks that don't have a chance of their antlers reaching their backs no matter now they contort themselves. You guys keep watching the Outdoor Channel programs for this and I think you will see what I am talking about.

Just my http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif worth.

[buckhavoc]

nice pic http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[KANSASBUCKHUNTER]

No offense PaPa, because I value your input as being very credible, but I will not base my deer findings on a television show. The only video&#39;s I have seen which come close to the REAL thing are the Primos ones which you have to buy on disc or tape. They pretty much only show the 5 minutes around the shot, or missed oppurtunity on a shot. Never have I seen a legitimate video on cable or satalite. Even the Primos ones on TV are a little iffy.

I agree in very thick cover, they will almost always go under, but around here thick cover is hard to come by, thus my findings and opinion on jumping.

I guess it depends on your area and the regional habits of whitetails. I have a trail pic of a deer scratching his back with his G2&#39;s.

Good conversation here. Something to get my mind back into the fall and out of this crappy nothing to hunt season!!!

[PaPaBob]

KansasBuckHunter: I figured I would hear back from you. Yes, I agree with you about the TV programs. There are so many that are just BS. High fences or oversaturated deer herds are the norm. I surely don&#39;t put all my stock in this arena. My first inclination when I saw the bare spots was that this was a product of a game farm or high fence situation. But, I kept watching and asking anyone that would listen what they thought the bare spots were. No one hear in my neck of the woods had ever killed one with this anomally. I have a friend that is an outfitter in S. Illinois and he has hung up many many huge deer and when asked his first immediate response was from going under fences. He said that he as seen it happen and the wires rub real hard right on top of the shoulders. But, he indicated that he has seen many huge bucks( with long G-2&#39;s ) that didn&#39;t have the bare patch.

So, I am concluding that if a buck even with long G-s&#39;s, without a wire crossing that requires going under, but still participates in licking activities as they all do doesn&#39;t have the patch then this would support the wire crossing theory.

We will have to keep up the observations to try and figure this thing out. I have quite a library of DVD&#39;s and will continue to watch all the activites and see if we can figure this thing out. Maybe it is both activities.

Nice talking to you. Am going up to our leased property today to pick up cams and hopefully a few pics of bucks that survived. Will post later if I have any. Don&#39;t let the winter doldrums drive you to boredom.

[Timjackson]

PaPa... I agree 100% with you.. I dont think it matters if it is a doe, buck, big buck, small buck, etc... They are still going to take the easiest route possible.. Havent any of you ever seen the deer walking a fence line.. They could jump over any time they want, but why when you can just slip under it and it is much easier.. I have also witnessed this with a few of our old feeder pens.. Once the wire gets loose and starts sagging they will go UNDER the wire EVERY time... Now, if they are spooked they will jump it simply because they are trying to get out of an area. Also if the fence is new or in really good shape they will jump it because there is no place to go under and the wires are really tight...

[KANSASBUCKHUNTER]

Yes, they are lazy and will walk a fence line and take the easiest route over, or through, whichever is EASIEST. The problem I see with you saying "when they are spooked they will jump so they can get out of there", this tells me the easiest, quickest way must be to jump it, thus contradicting your easiest way is under argument.

Don&#39;t get me wrong, I have pictures of deer(bucks included) going under fences and they will if the conditions permit it(high bottom strand), but I see 75% of them going over.

Here the top strand of the barb wire will frequently get "caught" on the next strand down, thus making the fence shorter where they like to jump over. At this location you can always count on deer jumping over.

Last year I made a horrible shot on a moving big buck and hit him in the back hip. I left him overnight and the next morming when we started the track, he jumped a full height fence with a broken back leg. Granted he was pushed by us and was scared, but I am convinced he could not have gone under that fence even if he wanted to. When he cleared the fence, the landing broke open the clot in his leg and the blood trail became very easy to follow. We eventually caught up to him and got another arrow in him, but he was just about out of blood by then.

[Timjackson]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
The problem I see with you saying "when they are spooked they will jump so they can get out of there", this tells me the easiest, quickest way must be to jump it, thus contradicting your easiest way is under argument.[/b]

No... What I meant by that is if they are spooked they are not going to take their time and find the easiest route.. They are going to get out of there hell bent which usually means jumping the fence.. Not because it is easier but because they need to get out quick...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
but I see 75% of them going over[/b]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Here the top strand of the barb wire will frequently get "caught" on the next strand down, thus making the fence shorter where they like to jump over. At this location you can always count on deer jumping over.[/b]

It is just the opposite here.. I definitely see more going under the fence.. You might be right, it could be a regional thing or something like that.. As far as the fence is concerned, I usually wrap the top wire around the second one myself to try and make it easier for them....

[bowarr]

I would have to agree more with PaPa and the fence causing the bare spot on a deer, rather than from their antlers. I have seen some doe with this spot rubbed also but usually the bucks have it more than likely because a buck is a bit more lazy and heavier than a doe. It is possible that maybe 5-10% of the spots are caused by a bucks antlers, but more often than not it is from crawling under fences or through them. These marks are apparent throughout the year, but of course more prevalent around the rut when the bucks are moving more, and thus more visible to us hunters and our cams. As for the tv shows, like anything in life, believe non of what you hear and half of what you see just to be safe!

[KANSASBUCKHUNTER]

hey fellas, a little off the subject here, but I got this pic earlier this year and noticed the "chunk" of hair and maybe skin missing from this does hind quarter. Any ideas on the cause of this?

[Badgerbuckhunter]

I can&#39;t afford cable TV/outdoor channel and I don&#39;t watch the movies, because most are canned hunts. I have personally witnessed G2&#39;s rubbing on the top of the shoulder area. If it was exclusively cause by the fence you will have hair missing all the way down the back not just the top of the shoulder. The G2&#39;s don&#39;t have to be extremely long, they just have to be pointing straight upward instead of slightly forward like most are. That must be an old wound on the doe; it doesn&#39;t look like any infection or drainage. She looks healthy otherwise.

[rjlasko]

Awesome photo Grey! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif Great idea putting the cam along a fence line like that.

[Dampland]

Here is a couple of bucks with bald spots... I think they are from Barb Wire

[Dampland]

and here&#39;s another one.

[PaPaBob]

Thanks for the great pics there Dampland. I still think that the barbed wire is the cause. The smooth end of antler tines just don&#39;t seem like they would do that type of damage even if it were a constant activity. But, the rough rusty barbed wire surely could do this kind of damage. Great pics.

[Outhouse]

I would have to go with the fence causing the bare spots more then the antlers. While antelope unting I have noticed bare spots on them... further down by their butt. Antelope almost always go under the fence from my experience.

[MIdeerslayer]

im not sure i would go with barbwire but them are all great pics.