More from the CA. DFG

[F350]

This is a reply to my most recent question.
Hope it helps or keeps some of you out of trouble.

John,

It will never have the final answer! I use this scenario in training
new Wardens except I use deer, as the pig issue makes it actually a
little easier to answer.

The issues are two fold.

Number one: The hunter is required by law not to waste game FGC 4304;
however, only to the extent that a "Reasonable Effort" is made to
retrieve the game. Is it "reasonable" to break the law and trespass to
do so... I don't think so. However it is morally wrong!

Number two: The landowner has the right to keep people off his
property and anyone who enters without permission is in violation of
trespass PC 602, or if the person has his gun, possibly FGC 2016 Hunter
Trespass.

A side issue is if the landowner tries to keep the game that died on
their property, that makes it a little cleaner as we have a law that
makes the animal belong to the person who actually wounded the animal
and is in "Hot Pursuit" of the animal. The law makes it a misdemeanor
for someone to take the animal which by law belongs to the person who
has wounded it and is in Hot Pursuit of the animal. However, the hunter
should call DFG to make the inquiry, not enter the private property and
get in a dispute with the landowner!

What it all boils down to is the hunter needs to be resonsible enough
to not hunt near areas where this type of situation can develop and to
do whatever possible to minimize the situation.

That is the best I can do to answer that one!

Michael P. Carion
Acting Assistant Chief
Training and Administrative Services Unit
mcarion@dfg.ca.gov
916-653-7135

[LeeChul]

I would still hop the fence to get the pig. Just my http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif .

Like he said you have to make a reasonable effort to try and recover the game. I think its reasonable to jump the fence. Your judgement of reasonable may be different. But that is what makes us all unique individuals. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-2drunks-singing.gif

If the land owner had a problem and approached me, I&#39;d say, "Oh, I&#39;m sorry is this your property. Give me a moment and I&#39;ll be gone." If he had a problem with that I&#39;d tell him he should build a fence that wouldn&#39;t allow animals to cross the property line.

[Marty]

I take issue with this statement:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Is it "reasonable" to break the law and trespass to
do so... I don&#39;t think so. However it is morally wrong![/b]
IMO, duly authorized (government) officials should restrict their opinions to the legal interpretation of a law or statute. Unless such a statement is properly presented as an explicite expression of personal belief. (ie. "In my opinion, it is morally wrong to abandon game.")

I would agree that it is appropriate to &#39;hop a fence&#39; to retrieve downed game, when/where the act of obtaining &#39;right to tresspass&#39; from the landowner may jeopardize the harvest. Many people want to confuse the issue with poaching. As such, I do not consider such tresspass to be &#39;hostile&#39; toward the land owner. If the landowner did request that you vacate his property, you must oblige. However, the landowner better have an appropriate game tag, because my next stop may be to talk with the local warden.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[F350]

Marty,
While it may not be 100% correct to state his opinion in the manner he did,
Capt. Carion did take the time (Twice now) to try and help with some clarification for JHO&#39;ers.

He has also given next day responses to questions which could make the difference between a brother hunter getting into trouble or not. If I were going hunting this weekend, I&#39;d be glad I read this before hand.

The guy has been a true gentleman and I believe him to be a valuable resource to responsible hunters. Just my http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif

"Nuff Said"

[prohunter]

I have to strongly disagree with LeeChul! I don&#39;t think you own much or any land in the country. I say that because of your response. Would you want me to hop your backyard fence and start looking around for something? Or would you want me to come ask your permission first. Remember the landowner is probably dealing with tresspassers&#39; all year round for various reasons. Some legit & some not! So the landowner not knowing who you are or what your doing could get you in trouble withhim or her. Like the warden said:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
What it all boils down to is the hunter needs to be resonsible enough
to not hunt near areas where this type of situation can develop and to
do whatever possible to minimize the situation.[/b]

[LeeChul]

So call him and tell him what you are doing. You have to remember this landowners attitude. A decent person would have been willing to meet the person at the property line and help him out. This isn&#39;t really an issue of ignoring someones property, its more about an antihunter&#39;s bad attitude and neglegence to the fact that this animal needed to be recovered.

As to the quote you made, how many times have you gone hunting and not killed until almost dark, how many times have you gone out and shot a deer crossing a river, it seems inevitable that if you are hunting a piece of property you will eventually come across this situation.

Cheers
http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[Schoettgen]

LeeChull,
If I caught you on my land and you told me I needed to build a better fence, I would tell you to learn how to make a cleaner shot and to get the hell off my land. Now, if you knocked on my door and asked permission I would be more than happy to lend a hand. You need to be carefull how you treat landowners, how You act reflects on all hunters.

[LeeChul]

Now if you watch the outdoor channel as much as I do you&#39;d see that 90% of the "well placed shots" from even big bore rifles end with the animal running between 30 and 60 yards plenty of distance to slide under a fence. On top of that, I&#39;ve heart shot deer with a 30-06 and watched them run nearly 75 yards. What about archery hunting?

Now we don&#39;t know the exact details but as he said, the landowner was contacted and he said no to crossing the land, are you suggesting its ok to let the animal just sit there? Clearly we don&#39;t see eye to eye Schoettgen, and that&#39;s fine. That&#39;s what this is all about right? I stand on my position, I&#39;d recover the animal.

[VHRAM]

as much as i would like to retrieve the pig I wouldnt want to loose my hunting rights,gear, etc......... I wouldnt do it without permisson.

[Schoettgen]

Your right, I don&#39;t watch the outdoor channel, but I have spent my fair share of time in the field. Most of the 50 or 60 deer I have shot with a rifle dropped withing 10 yards of where they were hit, I can say the same for hogs and I have killed twice as many of them. I have almost made two dozen achery kills and all have gone under 100 yards also, including bears. You need to make allowances before you shoot. If you think there is a resonable chance that an animal that you shoot will travel 100 yards and you are 10 yards off the fenceline, it is irresponsible to take that shot. Avoid the situation.

[LeeChul]

Congratulations on your 50-60 deer and twice as many pigs. It seems I&#39;ve upset you...oh well... I&#39;ll still sleep fine tonight. What you consider an irresponsible shot is also a legal one...

[Freedivr2]

Originally posted by Marty@Mar 23 2004, 10:58 AM
I take issue with this statement:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Is it "reasonable" to break the law and trespass to
do so... I don&#39;t think so. However it is morally wrong!
IMO, duly authorized (government) officials should restrict their opinions to the legal interpretation of a law or statute. Unless such a statement is properly presented as an explicite expression of personal belief. (ie. "In my opinion, it is morally wrong to abandon game.")

[/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t believe that&#39;s what we really want of our law enforcement officials, that is, just to stick to the "letter of the law" at all times and in all situations......what a stinking world it would be if there were no gray areas or that they would have no opinion with regards to exercising good morals, ethics or standards of conduct that are outside the boundries of the law.

I&#39;m sure you&#39;ve heard of the Hunters (or Sportsmans&#39;) code of ethics..... Is that bound by any laws? Nope. Do you personally follow those code of ethics when you hunt or do you just stick to what is in the fish and game code? My hope is that hunters treat the "unwritten laws" with the same respect as those which have a fish and game code number next to them.

Using the logic of black and white, it would be beyond my duties/responsibilities as a Hunter Safety Instructor to teach those code of ethics to students and explain the importance of being a good sportsman to them. The state includes these items, not laws, but moral codes, as part of the Hunter Education course for a good reason. Because gray areas ARE important, sometimes more so than the laws. Is it legal to shoot a buck in the butt? Yep. Is it an ethical shot? Nope.

Should law enforcement officials be given some latitude to operate in the gray area to encourage a positive, constructive outcome of a situation? You bet they should and I&#39;m glad they do vs. the alternative of black and white enforcement.

[fpscabs]

Why are we afraid to ask nicely for permission? Most landowners will respect that and if the answer is &#39;no&#39;, call the warden. They will usually help the hunter acting reasonable to collect their game.

In my opinion, just because a shot is legal, does not make it always the right thing to do. When I fish, I usually can take a legal limit of 5 trout home, I usually only take that which will be eaten, whether it is 5 or 0. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif

[Orso]

If I may cut in here... Sorry to take this a little off of the direction it is going but, I was interested in hearing about the "hot pursuit" law mentioned. I was under the impression the animal belonged to the person who actually killed it. Not to the individual who wounded it and is in hot pursuit of it. Thanks F350 for the thread...

As far as the direction this thread had been going in.... I too feel you must ask permission first before crossing the fence, and if the owner says NO, then you have to try and get assistance from either Sherriff or DFG. Legal or not you have to look at the entire situation prior to taking a shot, and if ethically it is wrong to take the shot, because the animal is 10yards to the propperty line, then you may not want to take the shot.

Good thread!!

[tony270]

If your house is 300 yards from the downed game, and you can&#39;t see or hear me, I&#39;m getting my game, plan and simple. As long as I&#39;m following game that I shot, and as long as I don&#39;t do any damage to your property, who will know. That&#39;s just what I would do.

[Schoettgen]

Originally posted by LeeChul@Mar 24 2004, 09:15 PM
What you consider an irresponsible shot is also a legal one...
Just because a shot is legal does not mean it needs to be taken. Shooting animals on the edge of a cliff, on or around the edge of a fast river, edge of private property, next to a HWY, etc... May be legal, but since we have the ethical obligation to recover what we kill, it is our responsibility as hunters to pass on shots where recovery may not be possible. Things can still go wrong, if they do stay legal and get help from F&G if you need to. If you regularly hunt boarder ground try contacting the landowners ahead of the season and ask if tresspassing would be ok if you ever needed to recover an animal. If they say no, adjust your shooting accordingly. Arguing with a landowner while you are tresspassing for any reason is just about the worst thing you could do. Don&#39;t even go there.

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
If you regularly hunt boarder ground try contacting the landowners ahead of the season and ask if tresspassing would be ok if you ever needed to recover an animal.[/b]

And there it is, right there...

Don&#39;t rely on anyone else&#39;s word about a landowner, it&#39;s still a real good idea (if not your responsibility) to touch base with the neighbors BEFORE the situation arises. You might be surprised how many people will tell you, "So-and-so never lets anyone on their land," without ever actually talking to Mr. So-and-so. When you knock on the door, not asking to hunt, but just asking about the possibility of recovering game if it crosses the line... well, the answer may be different from what you heard.

And sometimes, the rumors are true. Make your choices based on this information. If an incident still occurs, then it&#39;s in your best interest to approach it right. This may mean going back to the landowner and telling him what happened, apologize for the intrusion, and ask permission to recover your animal. If he still says no, contact DFG and see if they or the Sherriff&#39;s Dept will pitch for you.

All that said, I&#39;ll be as honest as anyone and say, if the animal falls within sight of the fence, and I&#39;m way "back of beyond", then I&#39;m probably gonna go grab my animal and get it back over the fence. But, at the same time, I won&#39;t go following a blood trail all over someone else&#39;s property without permission.

[dreaminhogs]

Im all for contacting the land owner to retrieve my game but honestly if my game is in sight I am going to set my gear aside and hop over to get my kill. F350 thanks for contacting the DFG and getting some clarification on this issue. I am all for public officials speaking the way this warden has and I hope his honesty isn&#39;t detered by some who frankly need to lighten up.

[F350]

Guys,
I can&#39;t express how happy I am that this thread has come to good use.
Debating the issues is also a large part of how we learn from each other. I believe that the minute one believes there&#39;s nothing left to learn, he is lost.

I am obviously a strong supporter of legal/ethical hunters and more importantly, very concerned about the impression the "Hunting community" makes on the rest of the world. I think it is moreso important to consider the outcome of the shot than actually taking one.

That being said, I&#39;m with Speckmisser on this one. I have crossed the fence line in the way-back part of someones land, got the game, and got the heck outta there. Had I been confronted by a land owner? I would have Humbley apollogized and immediately complied with their wishes. Again, I don&#39;t want to add to the bad taste in someones mouth over hunters, that would only hurt the rest of us.

On the same token, I agree that if contact can be made ahead of time with the adjacent land owners, you should do so out of simple respect. Personally, I&#39;d invite him/her to join my group for dinner. Heck! you may just make a new friend.

"Nuff said"

[superduty]

Ignorance is no excuse. The best way to debate a topic or someone at that matter, is to educate yourself. That&#39;s why I stay quit most of the time. Easier to pick out the ignorant people. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-hitting-self.gif Anyways I agree with F350 on there is nothing to lose only something to gain by discussing this topic. I know I have learned something from it by the research I did and reading others. Personnely I understand that hunters are picked on constantly by IGNORANT people http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-peta-sucks-sign.gif but I too would be guilty of crossing and retrieving. A pig is the only thing I have ever shot in my life that didn&#39;t drop in his tracks and I can understand the debate. I tend to go big though and have less problems shooting all my big game strictly with a model 700 7MM Mag or my model 7 short action ultra mage in 300. You can agree or disagree thats your right but don&#39;t expect it to change my mind. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif I agree with you prohunter, I would try to exhaust all methods and means available to me at the time to do the write thing. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-help-green.gif But if left with no possible contact I would jump. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pig-laughing.bmp

[prohunter]

I think if you ask first it will open alot of doors. Just be respectful. You have to realize that this landowner has been dealing with trespassing all year (thieves, trash dumpers, meth labs, poachers, etc...) that is why most of them have a bad attitude towards this. Most I know would grant you permission if you just asked FIRST.

[bayedsolid]

Who is going to see you if you have to cross the fence for a few yards to drag the animal back? If you don&#39;t, the animal would be wasted anyway. Most ranches are 1,000&#39;s of acres. The problem I see would be the time it takes to get to the ranch house to ask. There you are on foot, miles from the truck when you shoot something and it crosses the fence by 20 yards. What are you going to do as the sun is climbing higher in the sky? Walk for miles back to the truck and drive who knows how far around to try and find the ranch house and hope someone is home to give the okay? Now you drive back, park, and hike all the miles back into a now spoiled carcass that sits full of guts in the dark &#39;cause the sun went down an hour ago? Most of us hunt public land anyhow, so do you think any of these ranchers are going to give any kind of permission to be on their land? Not likely or they would have all kinds of people on their ranch "looking for lost game". They would just say why hunt the fenceline unless you&#39;re looking over the other side? 100 yards isn&#39;t that far to stay away and not have that problem, but if it happens, you either go get right then or you&#39;re wasting everybody&#39;s time. How long would it take for the warden to get there anyhow, even if you carried your cell phone? Those things never end up with reception in the hills anyway. The critter would spoil without being gutted by the time anybody showed up to try and figure anything out. It&#39;s a lose-lose situation. You either trespass or leave an animal to rot. Which ever one lets you sleep better at night.

[F350]

Bayedsolid,
Actually, Most ranchers a Pro-hunter and quite neighborly.
I think Prohunter&#39;s point is to ask permission from the neighbors before even beginning the hunt.

While hunting the Monterey County area, I noticed that every vehicle I passed on the road waved to me (the Drivers) and I found that if you don&#39;t wave back, you&#39;re suspicious to a lot of them. These folks all live with each other 24/7/365 and talk to each other constantly. "Hey martin...You got a guy in a big white Ford hunting your land? Nice trucks them Fords !"

The ranchers also understand that hunters are a key source of income for the ranchers and the community. Sure they compete with each other for business but their kids grew up together, got married and so on.

Most of&#39;em are really nice people with very basic values and ideals.
If you P_ss them off....We&#39;ve ALL P_ssed them off. Just Food for thought.
"Nuff Said"

Nice Trucks Them Fords !
That was for you Speckmisser. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-sideways-laff-aqua.gif

[F350]

Here&#39;s some toilet reading.
Select penal code and type 602pc in the search box. It will shed a lot of light.
You can also search CA F&G codes. It&#39;s quite easy and may keep your butt outta trouble.

If I posted the whole thing Jesse would shoot me. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/afraid_face.gif

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

[bayedsolid]

F-350---
I do see the point that was being made, but I was looking at it from the hunting public land point of view, which is where most guys are hunting. What if you asked ahead of time and the rancher says no? That was my point. You either go get it or it spoils. In a perfect world all of these good ideas would work fine, but that&#39;s not reality. I grew up in Monterey County and had more ranchers pissed off at me for driving onto their ranch to ask permission than I had say "no" nicely. I&#39;ve also had plenty give me the look of death just because I&#39;m driving down the road......and I waved. Sure, these guys are probably all very nice if you know them, but they certainly aren&#39;t so nice that they let anybody hunt that asks. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
These folks all live with each other 24/7/365 and talk to each other constantly. "Hey martin...You got a guy in a big white Ford hunting your land? Nice trucks them Fords ![/b] That&#39;s why some guys have lots of ranches to hunt and most have none at all. If you prove yourself responsible to one, it&#39;s easier to get on another. When I look at it from the point of view of the rancher, the first thing that comes to my mind is "Why are you hunting my fenceline in the first place if you&#39;re not planning on crossing it or shooting over it?" If I had a few thousand acres, I&#39;d be hunting it plenty myself with my friends and family. I wouldn&#39;t give someone permission to cross because I know exactly what would happen. They&#39;d be all over the place and if caught, say they were after wounded game. I&#39;d also be pissed if I found an animal 20 yards from the fence because someone didn&#39;t go get it, but I wouldn&#39;t give them the okay ahead of time, if that makes any sense. If you get ranchers to say you can cross the fence to get an animal then great. But I don&#39;t think it&#39;s gonna happen too often.

[Orso]

I need to ammend my earlier post... I HAVE crossed in to private property a couple of times. The last time which I remember vividly was after hunting all day up by Clear Creek. My freinds property was only about 2clicks away, but the only way to get there was a really long hike and would have put me back at camp very late. So I made the decision to quickly scramble through the property next to hers and get to the road and hump it back to camp in about an hour. Saving a LOT of time and a LOT of energy. I dont want to be a hipacrit (spelling??), even if I am the only one who knows about it.

[F350]

Bayedsolid,
I get your point and agree it&#39;s valid. I can only speak of my own experiences.
Thanks for the reply.

Orso, You&#39;re an honest Man and I respect that.
There now...Don&#39;t you feel better? You fence jumper! (J/K)

This has been a great thread and has given me a great opportunity to learn from our brother hunters as well as get to know more of you.
Thanks Guys. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[huntducks]

Leechul, tony270, bayedsolid.

You 3 dudes aint going to like what I have to say but someone needs to tell you, guys like you are the reason it&#39;s hard to get permission to access PP your the ones a farmer or rancher always talk about, like this guy just jumped over my fence and walked right through or he walked right into MY PLACE and dragged his dead pig or deer out what ever, nothing would pi$$ me off more then to have some yahoo trespass across my property, you 3 represent what I call the typical Kalifornia hunter you don&#39;t give a damn about others just yourself, but damn you make it hard for us the legal hunter to fallow.

I&#39;ll bet all 3 of you put together aint killed a handfull of game and just looking at your replys your so damn game hungry it has blinded you to what is right and wrong and it&#39;s flat wrong to trespess on another man&#39;s property I don&#39;t care how you try to justify it.

Now go ahead a fire back http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif and tell me how ethical you are when you have broken rule #1 DON&#39;T TRESPASS.

[raidernation]

F350
Most rancher&#39;s are Pro-hunter? How many Rancher&#39;s(Mrty Cty or Elsewhere) have actually given you permission to hunt? If you do get access why are you paying others to go hunting?


Hunter&#39;s are a key source of income? If that were the case, Most of us would not be searching for land to hunt. It would be plentiful. The Ranchers that do allow access don&#39;t make anything off us hunter&#39;s. If anything, the person managing their property will charge people to HELP(Very minimal) pay the ranchers insurance,taxes,etc.

You stated "I noticed people wave to you up in Monterey Cty". This is MOST country folk in general(no matter what part of the world you are in). On the other hand there are PLENTY up here that will maddog you for waving at them. They don&#39;t KNOW you.

I&#39;ve been trying to get access to property for years(15+) up here. Have succeeded a couple of times, But eventually something will change their mind. I know a ton of people very well that have land up here, But won&#39;t let people other than family hunt it.

As bayedsolid stated, I&#39;ve had ALOT of ranchers get very hostile at me for driving up to their house to ask permission to hunt or even FISH their property,No matter how you approach them. MOST (90%+) will not let a stranger who drives up to their ranchhouse and ask&#39;s permission to hunt.

huntducks
Before you fire away at people you need to know more about them, you would be surprised to see who/what/how many game some of the gentlemen you mentioned have taken or how ethical they are. Maybe their post came off wrong. How do you describe the typical California Hunter? I would be interested........ http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-soapbox.gif

We are all here to agree and disagree, however you should not compare a FEW to what you call the TYPICAL KALIFORNIA HUNTER!!! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[prohunter]

I need to clear up what I said. Most would give you permission to retrieve your game if you asked first. It would take some time in getting to know someone before they let a stranger hunt their property.

[F350]

Raidernation,
I&#39;ll keep this reply short (NOT)
My point is this; If I&#39;ve paid to hunt someone&#39;s ranch most of the neighbors don&#39;t seem to be against my actions. No...I don&#39;t see why anyone would just let me hunt their land for free. Think of the liability risks. "Strangers on my land?...With GUNS?" Uhhhhhhhhh.....NO !

I&#39;m simply speaking of what may be a select few that will let you hunt for a fee. My experiences with the neighbors in the Parkfield/San Miguel area is that they are Nice folks and I have never been treated with an ounce of hostility by any of them.

Yes, there is one rancher I know of that doesn&#39;t want hunters on his land period but he&#39;s still a nice man. It&#39;s his land and those are his feelings.

I make it very clear to everyone in my group that when we hunt, we follow the rules and we treat EVERYONE with respect and dignity regardless of their attitude.

Point is this...If you jump my wall to retrieve your kids ball, I&#39;m gonna be Pi$$ed for you not coming to my door first and I&#39;m gonna treat you as a criminal. It has nothing to do with liking kids or balls. It&#39;s about RESPECT.

If you don&#39;t like the rules, don&#39;t play near my wall.
If you don&#39;t like fence lines and trespass laws stay away from the fence lines.

Look!!! stuff happens and if it hasn&#39;t yet, it will. This is all about how we as a community deal with the rest of the world and the impact we have on them and them on us. You&#39;re free to do whatever you want and to pay the consequences when it goes bad.

I personally don&#39;t appreciate or respect anyone who makes the rest of us look bad. Like it or not, everyone stereotypes to some degree. I do not want there to be an even larger negative one about hunters because of the actions of a few.

Sorry for being so long winded.
"Nuff Said"

[bayedsolid]

huntducks---
You completly missed my point, so maybe you should re-read my posts. I&#39;m in no way advocating trespassing in general. If somebody breaks into my home in the middle of the night, points a gun at my family, and I shoot him, does that mean I wanted to shoot him or I&#39;m a murderer? By your logic it does. Life is full of imperfect situations and you do the best you can under the circumstances. There is a big difference between trespassing to hunt and crossing the fence 20 yards to collect an animal that you shot on the legal side of the fence. You call it unethical, but I think it is WAAAAAY more unethical to kill something and walk away just because it crossed the fence. This isn&#39;t something that happens everytime you go out anyhow, but it does happen. And no, it&#39;s never happened to me. Everybody is just giving their opinion anyway, and I like to hear them all. Many times a person doesn&#39;t think about something from all the perspectives, which is why it&#39;s good to hear from everybody. As far as your comment <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I&#39;ll bet all 3 of you put together aint killed a handfull of game[/b] Well, Mr. San Dimas, if you&#39;d ever like to get together with this country boy and compare photo albums, please, let me know. We could put $10 on every picture of a big game animal that one person has and the other doesn&#39;t. I could use a new truck. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-cool-shades-down.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[F350]

Bayedsolid,
Buy the Ford....Buy the Ford !!!

By the way, Nice Hog Pic http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbs-up-ani.gif

[Coondog]

Again I will have to say how GREAT IT IS TO LIVE IN TEXAS!!! I dont know how you cali boys do it over there... Way too many activists, tree-huggers and crazy laws for me! But you boys keep givin&#39;em hell....

As far as this post is concerned... dont really have to worry about it since we hunt on private land and know pretty much every land owner and hunter that adjoins us... No problem crossing fences here.. Hell most would probably let me shoot on em if I wanted....

But, (huntnducks you aint gonna like this) I would have no problem going in there and retrieving my game and getting out!! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[huntducks]

BS

I did not miss your point your first line tells it all.

"quote"Who is going to see you if you have to cross the fence for a few yards to drag the animal back? If you don&#39;t, the animal would be wasted anyway.

Like I said before who cares if it&#39;s wasted you should have thought about that before taking a shot next to another mans property that you know you don&#39;t have permission or any rights to trespass on, hunters in Ca. start out with anywhere from 1 to 2 strikes agains them, we should all try to paint a different picture not just give another person the right to add strike 3 and then tell 10 more people about this inconsideate hunter or poacher who just jumped over my fench and dragged his game back, by the time it gets to landowner number 3 you cut the fence and walked in a 1mi then next story you drove right thru the fence and loaded the animal up got the picture it&#39;s bad enought you just trespassed but storys like this always get blowen out of shape, there is no excuse for braking the law that simple if you want to rob a 7/11 that&#39;s fine you have no reflection on me but when you do it as a hunter you do.

Coondog you can&#39;t compaire your area to this one it&#39;s like compairing apples to rocks, I can tell you one thing Ca may heve it&#39;s faults but we don&#39;t have to pay for our hunting here unless we want to, there is still plenty of public land to hunt on.

[Coondog]

I guess it is apples to rocks, you can have ALL of that public land you want... Dont down hunting on private land just because you can&#39;t find a place, cannot afford one or just dont like hunting on private land for some reason. I doubt there is a person on here who would take public land over private if the price and the location were right. We get to manage our place like we want to, hunt whenever we want to and never have to worry about anybody else being out there when I get there... All of this for around $1000/yr and about 1.5 hrs. drive time... I&#39;ll take that any day over public land.... http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-faces-toast-beers.gif

[tony270]

Originally posted by huntducks@Mar 26 2004, 10:34 AM
Leechul, tony270, bayedsolid.

You 3 dudes aint going to like what I have to say but someone needs to tell you, guys like you are the reason it&#39;s hard to get permission to access PP your the ones a farmer or rancher always talk about, like this guy just jumped over my fence and walked right through or he walked right into MY PLACE and dragged his dead pig or deer out what ever, nothing would pi$$ me off more then to have some yahoo trespass across my property, you 3 represent what I call the typical Kalifornia hunter you don&#39;t give a damn about others just yourself, but damn you make it hard for us the legal hunter to fallow.

I&#39;ll bet all 3 of you put together aint killed a handfull of game and just looking at your replys your so damn game hungry it has blinded you to what is right and wrong and it&#39;s flat wrong to trespess on another man&#39;s property I don&#39;t care how you try to justify it.

Now go ahead a fire back http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif and tell me how ethical you are when you have broken rule #1 DON&#39;T TRESPASS.


Hey Dipp, j/k.
In my 48 years I have hunted mainly on Public Land. Over the years I have bagged my share of game, small and large, predators and varmints. Most of time I have to venture out very far to get to the good hunting grounds. I’m not going to get in a urine contest with you, so I’ll say the following.

If the game was within eye shot I would get it and I wouldn’t leave any sign that I was there.

Now if the property is posted per the Law, which in most cases it isn’t, I would think twice, the same if it was patrolled. It all depends on the situation. You know the old cliché “If you cant do the time, don’t do the crime”. I’m kind of a Maverick type of guy, and I think that’s only a trespass charge. You can’t legally shoot someone for range trespass, and you should be very careful on brandishing a weapon for that offence too. Best to get the vehicle license plate number and start the process. I’m not the
goodie-two- shoe type as you can see.

Yeah, that is a nice Hog. I think I would hop the fence for that.

[bayedsolid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Like I said before who cares if it&#39;s wasted you should have thought about that before taking a shot next to another mans property[/b]
WHO CARES IF IT&#39;S WASTED????!!!!!! And you&#39;re the one upset over the ethical issue? Even after I sat back up, after falling over from reading that one, I still can&#39;t find the words to respond to it. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-rolleyes-green.gif Second of all, not one single person was ever talking about shooting something on the other side of the fence. This was all about recovering game shot on the legal side of the fence and then it crossed and died. Are you furious over the kid that took 3 steps onto your yard yesterday and got his baseball that landed 6 feet from the curb while you were out? Oh, you hadn&#39;t given it a second&#39;s thought because you didn&#39;t even know it happened huh? I guess the neighborhood game should have just shut down and all the kids go home until they could get permission to take 3 steps off the sidewalk. Do you comb the edges of your yard everyday for DNA evidence that someone might have crossed your property line? Ranchers don&#39;t either. Not getting the ball would be ridiculous and it&#39;s not even in the same catagory as letting an animal go to waste. You know, ranches don&#39;t just run themselves so that ranchers have nothing better to do than walk miles of fenceline everyday in the hopes that once in their lifetime they might find a 30 ft drag mark to get irate over, and blow the story out of proportion to everyone they know. There wasn&#39;t one spot in this thread where anyone talked about leaving a hundred yard, bloody drag mark down to the ranch road where a gut pile now lays. When someone is talking about tearing fences down, running through gates, shooting cattle, ect... and saying it&#39;s okay, go ahead and get all riled up. But over this, you need to relax, because it&#39;s not the same as "robbing a 7-11".

[Freedivr2]

Originally posted by bayedsolid@Mar 30 2004, 02:58 PM
This was all about recovering game shot on the legal side of the fence and then it crossed and died. Are you furious over the kid that took 3 steps onto your yard yesterday and got his baseball that landed 6 feet from the curb while you were out? Oh, you hadn&#39;t given it a second&#39;s thought because you didn&#39;t even know it happened huh? I guess the neighborhood game should have just shut down and all the kids go home until they could get permission to take 3 steps off the sidewalk. Do you comb the edges of your yard everyday for DNA evidence that someone might have crossed your property line? Ranchers don&#39;t either. Not getting the ball would be ridiculous and it&#39;s not even in the same catagory as letting an animal go to waste.
I think bayedsolid hit the nail on the head. I&#39;ve been reading these posts without getting into the fray, but it&#39;s down and out just as innocent as a kid losing a ball over a fence. Anybody who makes a big deal about your recovering game shot elsewhere is just a big ol fatty.......

To me the answer is really a simple judgement call. If the land is obviously posted no tresspassing, then for sure go to the front door and ask permission to go get your game. Otherwise, go recover your game and get out of there quickly and of course if you&#39;re called on it, apologize profusely and use the "kid recovering his ball" analogy as a last resort.............

[F350]

I&#39;d have to agree that this comes down to judgment.
Some of us make better judgment calls than others and I always hope to hunt with people who exercise the good. There have been a couple of times where I&#39;ve been exposed to a knuckle head or two but I chalk it up to quick education. And yes, I have crossed the fence to retrieve. I was lucky and was never confronted but I have enough common sense to know that 3 strands of barbed wire do not translate to "Come on over".

But let&#39;s face it, if the owner of the ranch you&#39;re hunting says his neighbor is against hunting or that he doesn&#39;t want you on his land then, dang it....stay off!

You don&#39;t provoke the guy by arguing about signs and posting, it&#39;s his land. Where is the harm in asking before hand or even after the fact? Why make hunters look like renegades who don&#39;t respect another man&#39;s home.

Like it or not, the actions of a few will always affect the many.

"Nuff Said"

[huntducks]

Hey dipp/jk

Just something how you and BS would just trespass on another mans property and not bat a eye well not until you got poped then you would be on your knees begging please don&#39;t call the law, like I said guys like you give us all bad names in your disreguard for others.

Yes I did understand the animal was shot on one side and ran to the other, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHO IS BRAKING THE LAW.

I laugh when you make the statement how would he ever know I was there I would drag it back and nobody would ever know ya right, i&#39;ll bet you say same when your shoplifting.

Your right I don&#39;t want some kid climbing over my back fence, because when he falls in my pool and drowns or brakes a leg or decides to help himself to something, gee who will be at fault not him, I will and his parents will have there hands out.

[LeeChul]

Huntducks,
I&#39;m sorry this is so personal to you. I may hunt in California, but I&#39;m not a Californian, and it&#39;s because of Californians like you that I would never want to be. You seem so angry, what happened? Did someone drop you as a child? -Sorry... Don&#39;t worry about me, I haven&#39;t broken any trespassing laws in California, and I&#39;ll be gone soon.

"Love your enemy as your neighbor - love your neighbor as your brother." No wonder there is so much crime here... Some of you all don&#39;t love your neighbors... Makes me wonder how you treat your brother. Kane didn&#39;t like his so he just killed him. Should we expect the same from you?

"I&#39;ll bet all 3 of you put together aint killed a handfull of game and just looking at your replys your so damn game hungry it has blinded you to what is right and wrong and it&#39;s flat wrong to trespess on another man&#39;s property I don&#39;t care how you try to justify it." -That&#39;s harsh, but... unfortunately not true...

"You 3 dudes aint going to like what I have to say but someone needs to tell you, guys like you are the reason it&#39;s hard to get permission to access PP your the ones a farmer or rancher always talk about, like this guy just jumped over my fence and walked right through or he walked right into MY PLACE and dragged his dead pig or deer out what ever, nothing would pi$$ me off more then to have some yahoo trespass across my property, you 3 represent what I call the typical Kalifornia hunter you don&#39;t give a damn about others just yourself, but damn you make it hard for us the legal hunter to fallow."
- So am I a dude or a yahoo? Sometimes I do yahoo searches...

Anyways, I&#39;m sorry if you own a bunch of land and people sneek onto it to hunt, ultimately "God&#39;s animals," it&#39;s not fare...but sometimes it happens. In the case that we origionally began discussing on this thread... I think that if I was not going to recover it, I&#39;d stay there until the Fish and Game Warden came and picked it up to feed the hungry.

Final point, I would never let some PETA type bastard land owner get the best of me.

Cheers all

[Coondog]

Good points LeeChul...

Here is a scenario for you huntducks... You are on prime piece of private land (or public I guess) hunting elk. You look up and there stands the biggest elk you have ever seen, easily making the books. This is the one elk you have been hunting for all of your life. You shoot (and I know that this would NEVER happen to you) but hit him a little behind and the elk runs off. After a thick blood trail you see the monster laying about 20 yds. on the other side of the fence. Your telling me that you let the monster lay and waste and you just call it a day! BS!! In the heat of the moment with all of the adrenaline rushing through you, you grab him and bring him back over and start showing him off... Don&#39;t try to tell me otherwise because I know better... I must be the worst person in the world for wanting to get that trophy... I don&#39;t know how I live with myself sometimes!!!! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-sideways-laff-aqua.gif

[tony270]

huntducks:

In my opinion your analogy comparing a range trespass to home invasion or a home burglary is ridiculous. In the Grate State of California you can’t even legally shoot someone after they have invaded your home. We can only use deadly force if your life or someone else’s is in immediate danger. And someone running away or escaping out of a window doesn’t qualify.

I would never hunt with someone like you anyway, and furthermore, I hunt alone. So whatever I do out on the range, only God knows. Oh, unless you’re the peeking type, from what you have stated you seem like the peeking type of guy to me. Are you out on the range looking for someone crossing your fence when you should be out hunting game? I think you would rather get off looking for fence hoppers. And just for record, I learned not take property that didn’t belong to me when I was a toddler.

Everyone has an opinion and that’s all I wanted to state. I wont’ respond to anymore of your insults, chow.

P.S.
I won’t let land that is not legally posted stop me from getting game that I shot while hunting legally out on the range.
http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-peta-sucks-sign.gif

[huntducks]

First off I never said a thing about compairing this to a home invasion or a burglary you best reread my posts http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-idea-blu.gif

Second T270 if you say i&#39;m insulting you for braking the law you have a problem.

I&#39;m not angry at anyone but when you know your wrong in a dabate you try to turn it personal like gee you must have been dropped on your head as a child or your a very angry person tells me you have no leg to stand on for your actions your just trying to justify it and convince anyone it the right thing to do, your even trying to convince yourself.

There is nothing personal to me, your going to do what you do and i&#39;m going to do what I do i&#39;m just trying to show you what is wrong with how your doing it simple as that and your actions reflect upon me.

T270 you best find out what Ca. trespass laws are if it&#39;s fenced or under cultivation even if it&#39;s not fenced it&#39;s considered private if it not fenced just open wild land it needs to have so many signs per mi, then if your hunting it you and everyone in your party needs written permision it has been this way for at least 20 years and why because hunters and bad guys have abused it, Ca. trespass laws used to be real simple if it was not posted it was open to hunt you did not need written permision.

Coondog

That is a tuff call it would depend what state I was in, but a elk is not a animal you drag 20 feet or 20 yards so I would look for the landowner but I would have covered my bases first and if nothing else would have found out who and where the landowner lived in cases this happened.

F350 you got the right attitude on this one to bad other don&#39;t see it your way.

[tony270]

I said that was my last post but........

Look, in the big scheme of things this is a very small. The bail is only $270.00 for hunting trespass. I would like the law changed to mimic other states, the ones that allow retrieval of downed game within reasonable distance from a fence line. I think we have to many laws anyway. If enough people ignored stupid laws maybe things would change. But you know sheep the syndrome pops up.

2016* Hunting trespass on private property $100 $170 $270

http://www.saccourt.com/criminal/bailsch/m...l/fandgcode.asp (http://www.saccourt.com/criminal/bailsch/misdbail/fandgcode.asp)

[F350]

I am so glad that this thread has provoked such debate.
Hopefully, a lot of hunters have learned from it. As for me... I&#39;ve learned a lot about who NOT to hunt with.

Personally, I have only hunted with one complete knucklehead and never will again.

You have to ask yourself... Is this worth losing my truck, my guns, my money, and my freedom?

Trust me ladies & gents, It can and will happen. Maybe when it does happen to one of us here, some of you will read the post and THEN take it a little more serious.

And again, what about the impression we make on the rest of the world?
Haven&#39;t we already lost enough in the way of places to Hunt and shoot?