US Lt. Col. needs our help!! [Archive] - Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors Forum. Southern California Hunting

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RutnNStrutn

11-20-2003, 07:22 AM

On a daily basis our men and women in uniform face extreme danger. Their lives are literally in peril every moment of every day. Which brings us to the story of Lt. Col. Allen B. West. He's a battalion commander, and he has men under him every day, looking to him for their safety.
And he needs our help today.
West's unit was stationed in Tikrit, a stronghold for Saddam Hussein's loyalists where American soldiers face attacks almost daily. West had information about an imminent terror attack, and was interrogating a terror suspect.
Getting nowhere with him, Lt. Col West fired his pistol twice http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif to scare the man into divulging information. The man got scared, gave up the information that West needed, and the attack was avoided.
So what's the problem, you're asking?
West's firing his weapon was a violation of the Geneva Convention http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-rolleyes-green.gif, and as a result, he now faces a court martial for communicating a threat and aggravated assault. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-shakehead-blue.gif
West has been offered a choice. He can resign from the Army immediately, and forfeit his 20 year retirement, or he can face criminal charges which carry up to 8 years in prison.
This is wrong. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-far-sdie-guy-yellin.gif I just don't believe the American people would have a problem with scaring a terrorist in order to save American lives. I do not advocate pulling out his fingernails or cutting off his toes, but I do not have any illusions that terrorists are complying with the Geneva Convention either. And that's why Lt. Col. West needs our help today.
Just ask yourself this question. You are in the military and someone you love like your daughter or son is in danger of getting killed. All you have to do is scare a terrorist to save them. Would you do it? You'd be guilty of violating the Geneva convention, but you would still do it wouldn't you? That's what Lt. Col. West did.
Situations like these are the reason the Secretary of Defense is given the power to intervene and stop the prosecution of Colonel West. They're also the reason the power of the pardon is given to Governors and to the President.
This is not warfare in World War II or I. Remember, this is a war on terrorism, and personally, I don't think the Geneva Convention applies. I would certainly want my commander to do the very same thing as Colonel West if it was my son's life on the line. Simply put, he deserves better than this.
Please go to the link below and sign the petition to Sec. Rumsfeld asking him to have the charges against Lt. Col. West dropped.
Our nation is at war. This isn't the time to go wobbly about getting tough with terrorists.
Please join me and ask Sec. Rumsfeld to drop the charges against Lt. Col. West. Sec. Rumsfeld may receive criticism if he intervenes on behalf of Lt. Col West. We need to let him know that he has the support of millions of Americans. That means forward this to your friends and family too! Every person helps!

Click Here
http://www.millionsofamericans.com/home/west.cfm

Please forward this to your friends and family today!
Secretary Rumsfeld needs to hear from you! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-soapbox.gif

paulc

11-20-2003, 08:24 PM

I signed his petition. I hope more of you do.

Everyone take a moment and consider signing it.

SierraExplorer

12-03-2003, 11:44 AM

I am saddened to hear such a story.

BUT we are to be shown to the world and our own families that we are in a higher reguard to the other nations and their peoples that just because they can do it to us- does not that we can treat people in an inhumane way and threatning. (I am sure it does happen and is currently happening by our own Goverment anyway)

My View- Treat all people as Christ has shown the way. This statement will offend alot and not even comprehend to others- but for me it is for ME and my familys golden rule. Love others as you love yourself. Love covers a multitude of sins and shows the way to the Truth. Please don't say I am nieve- but this is not a subject that many have resonded to for mabey the same reasons that I am saying.

I watched 2 sunday nights ago on 60 Minuets, the American P.O.W.'s and their lawsuit against the Dept. of Defence and the monies due them (assinged by the court) that was taken away for the purpose of rebuilding Iraq. I pray and feel for them every morning especially when driving and hearing that another Troop and Troops lives were lost in combating the cause for freedom in Iraq.

But I feel frimly that we are to treat all of our P.O.W's and civillians in a way that shows the true American civil liberties and the Constiution of the United States FOR for which it stands.

All I am asking is to give this thought and look into your heart- and in the end mabey you can invite your neighbor over to your dinner table and break bread with him/her.

God Bless our Troops, our families and us,
Sincerely,
Dan

MULEY51

12-05-2003, 12:55 PM

gladly signed!

Dan, if you're really so religious, read the Bible again...it's full of war. The LT deserves support, not a sermon.

SierraExplorer

12-05-2003, 06:58 PM

Dear Mulie51- Thank you so much for your pointing out that I am not "religious"

PLEASE- This is not a "sermon"- it is my view, and that is what makes this Nation the greatist Nations to live in. As a civilian- I along with others, am most proud of being and partaking daily- giving thanks- to the the people that served in wars past and presant- and even gave up their lives protecting for our freedoms and our consitution that equates equality to all. And even the troops still serving today as will be serving tommorow, as even my own sons may be serving on either their own accord, or might be drafted to serve in the future.

I am free, and able, to daily devote myself to reading the Word for my own life and the study of MY God and his will for me and the raising of my family. That they ALL might all come to know Him as their own personal savior and grow in His grace.

The "Wars" you are refering to are in the Old Testiment for which the Lord God protected and served his own poeple of His "own" nation (the Jewish people- His own at the time in the Old Testiment/and still today<but not in written record>) no matter how much they strayed from the Truth (to serve idols and their other desires of their heart at that time) ((and our's now in this present day and age))

In the New Testiment- there are no actual wars (besides the stoning of those apostles that proclamed the truth in front of the leaders, pharacies and the scribes) in the Word, just the revealing of our own war againts God and the daily wars of our own indiviguals heart and of the flesh- but just the 11 apostiles that were martered.

( the apostles that wrote the New Testiment ((and all 11 <Judas dis-embowled himself> that were martered except John- that lived in exile and wrote the Revelations of God before his passing)) --13 Apostles in all with Paul-- that were breathed by God) for the showing of the Son of God- Christ and Gods redempttve plan for us- the elect .

<<a very indepth and contriversal conversation that I am free- not not willing to debate "online" but rather I pray that myself and my family would be the true testiment to Him in our daily lives>>.

I am sure that as even the apostle Peter was crucified uspide down at his own request for his own showing that he was not worthy to die in the same manner of the Son of God- Christ. our Savior, (and he was shown mercy in that request- he was still crusified upside down as he had requested). That shows how we are to uphold all others in our own daily life for us and our own Nations beliefs for which it was founded and still today stands.

This was never my intention to stir up a "Religious" debate- But WE as a Nation that "professes" to proclaim that the one True God need to uphold and live our every actions in accordace to the rules that he set forth in both the Old Teasamint (under the Law) AND the New Testiment (under grace).

Yes- EVEN the Military (every troop that has held up his own hand on his own accord) that has sworn an oath to protect and serve our Nation here AND abroad for which we were founded. To uphold our standards of freedom and dueprocess under our law's

If these were not my thoughts alone- OUR Country would not be court masrhaling him today in a military court by his peers.

You see- We are founded under, and serve, under the same oracles that our armed forces are to employ and serve as a "Testiment" to our Nations higher standard for our freedoms- and others abroad- AND their own civil liberties for wich we are fighting for that they can enjoy all of our freedoms that we so easily take for granted- and some that feel that they were "due" them. (another topic)

Please IF you have 45 minuets to spare- listen to these words- Please- not for me, but for yourselves, that you may have a better understang of where I am comming from.

mms://calvarytruth.org/sermons/031116.wma (http://calvarytruth.org/sermons/031116.wma)

mms://calvarytruth.org/sermons/031116.wma

(If you wish to copy and paste to Windown Media Player)

May God greatly bless and protect our troops, and our families,
Sincerely,
Dan

az4life

12-06-2003, 03:45 PM

I will Gladly sign that petition also. This case is something that should not even be in question since Iraq is not bound by the Geneva convention. Iraq and the Muslim extremists all over the globe have proved that they will not abide by any treaty or accord signed with and to benefit in any way Christians (infidels).
Many Muslim Procalmations (fatwahs) have come down in recent years from Muslim clerics stating that killing anyone who is not muslim is the only acceptable course of action for a Good Muslim. How many clerics have come out and stated this is wrong, and told their follwoers NOT to kill christians. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-soapbox.gif

There are some 15-20 wars going on now in the world, an nearly every one of them is Muslims against someone else. These people will not stop until thye control the world and I do not want that to happen.

There comes a point where every Free person must decide if he or she is ready to give their life to prove that the muslims don't fight fair. We already know that they fight dirty. Using Women, Children, Civilians and even animals (now that will make PETA http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-peta-sucks-sign.gif go nuts) so now we must decide if we will ALL convert to Islam or fight the same way they do to keep the world free.

I choose to fight any way we can, to prevent them from taking over the world. Sierraexplorer, I have some comments for you, but I think I will just say a little prayer of my own instead. Obviously you are one of those folks that liberals see as Christian right wing extremists. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/two-cents.gif

Cda55

12-06-2003, 05:15 PM

I signed the petition. Thanks for bring this up. Everyone here should sign it. I don't even have a problem with them taking it farther. Shooting a gun worked on this guy, so be it. It saved lives. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-gunfighter-yellow.gif

Cda55

12-06-2003, 05:15 PM

catfish0311

12-07-2003, 11:11 AM

i was glad to signed, i hope it helps Lt. Col. West
semper fi
steven

WarPig

12-07-2003, 08:14 PM

I too signed the petition, I try not to reflect on the reasons that caused me to make my decision to quit the Marine Corps after 10 years of service. I stood by many men none of which this day would have a problem with what the Lt.Col did. But if not for one of the biggest reasons I decided to leave, Politics play a major roll in our military along with the press and its wonderfull deeds of service. I can not believe they would do this to someone for making a valid attempt at gaining information to help save the lives of our blistered men in the field. As successfull as he was he should be applauded for his actions. Next time I say don't clear the chamber just rattle off a few strokes to his head with the butt of the gun and hope that it doesn't discharge a round in the process. I applaud you Lt. Col. and I salute you with the greatest honor. Men like him make me proud that I use to serve in my beloved Corps. Its the men that fight him that I would like to kick in the teeth.

Thanks,

Ben Garcia
USMC 1991-2001

AgentP

12-12-2003, 06:17 PM

TIKRIT, Iraq (CNN) -- The commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division's on Friday accepted a U.S. military investigator's recommendation and ordered administrative action against Lt. Col. Allen West, who was accused of using improper methods to force information out of an Iraqi detainee.

Following a military hearing, West was fined $5,000 over two months, according to West's civillian attorney, Neal Puckett.

The punishment does not affect West's eligibility for retirement and pension, Puckett said in a statement.

West, 42, will be assigned to the rear detachment of the 4th Infantry Division awaiting the processing of his retirement request, the statement said.

Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the 4th Infantry's top general in Tikrit, could have rejected the recommendation and ordered a court martial. If he were to be found guilty at a court martial of the two articles against him, West could have faced 11 years in prison, a military prosecutor told CNN.

The case stems from an incident August 20 at a military base in Taji, just north of Baghdad, when West was interrogating an Iraqi policeman, who was believed to have information about a plot to assassinate West with an ambush on a U.S. convoy.

In testimony at an Article 32 hearing -- the military's version of a grand jury or preliminary hearing -- West said the policeman, Yahya Jhrodi Hamoody, was not cooperating with interrogators, so he watched four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion beat the detainee on the head and body.

West said he also threatened to kill Hamoody. Military prosecutors say West followed up on that threat by taking the suspect outside, put him on the ground near a weapons clearing barrel and fired his 9 mm pistol into the barrel.

Apparently not knowing where West's gun was aimed, Hamoody cracked and gave information about the planned ambush on West's convoy, thwarting the attack.

West said there were no further ambushes on U.S. forces in Taji until he was relieved of his leadership post on October 4.

"I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers," West testified to a military courtroom of observers and some teary-eyed troops formerly under his command.

Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."

Puckett argued that because West is always accompanied by U.S. troops that he acted to save American lives.

But while West's supporters call him a hero, military prosecutors said his actions amounted to torture and violated articles 128 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Prosecutor Capt. Magdalena Pezytulska said West should be tried for assault and for communicating a threat. "This is a case about a man who lost his temper," she argued. "There are consequences for [West's] actions."

When West testified that he had "no malice toward Hamoody" and that he "just wanted information," Pezytulska presented a document of West's typed statement following the August incident. She asked him to read his own written words to the court: "In my anger, I couldn't remember how many shots were fired."

After nearly 20 years of military service, West plans to move his family from Texas to Florida, where he said he hopes to start a new life.