View Full Version : German JagdTerrier
I have been doing some reading about hunting dogs and the German JagdTerrier came up and I was very interested if anyone has them in their pen to hunt hogs. Anybody in California have them? Any of your thoughts or comments about the dogs would be appreciated.
Thanks
RIFLEMAN
02-02-2003, 01:53 PM
Orso,
I have never had any personal experience with Jagdterriers, so all of my input is heresay and speculation...
I have heard that the dogs are very gritty, tough, game-minded and aggressive dogs that are successfully used to hunt hogs and bear. They are small enough, smart enough and fast enough to not get caught or cut by the game, but can bay very well.
The apparent drawback to hunting with Jagdterriers is their rumored dog-aggressiveness that does not allow you to keep your males together.
Again, this is just heresay, so don't bank on this information too much. Hopefully, someone else can help you better than I.
Rifleman,
Thanks for the reply. I will keep doing some research, I will keep an eye out for any more info on dog aggressiveness.
Thank you,
boarrunner
02-04-2003, 08:51 PM
Orso,
I have a 1 1/2 old male Jagd terrier. my hunting partner has a male also. his is two weeks older. I have a male dogo and a male hound/cur cross and have not had any problems with agression, but the Jagds tend to want to claim the kill. he is excellent around my 4 year old daughter, but not to good with strange adults, fine with kids.smart enough to kill feral cats at a friends barn, and sleep next to our house cat
other qualities,
They are very smart, eager to please. very protective of their family, and yard. extremely hard hunting. incredable speed and endurance. good scenting ability very gritty. they are going to catch what they are after. most are wide open on track.
I was worried that the Jagd little legs would wear out on a long racebut these little guys run circles around the long legged dogs, and don't seem to get tired.
I know of a guy in Petaluma that breeds them and hunts them on hogs, he had some pups for sale on baydog.com
Boarrunner,
Thanks for you input. Very helpful. I checked out baydog.com, and went to the classified sections and I see there are many dogs for sale. When I am ready to buy (hopefully in the next couple of months) that website will be of help.
Boarrunner and rifleman,
I am on the web alot these days trying to get as much information as possible. I am really going to be starting this from scratch. I mean from step one, this will be all new to me, but I have given this a lot of thought and I am really pumped.
What does "gritty" mean? Do you mean tough and willing to scrap it out with a hog? When you say "wide open on track" are you refering to the dogs barking? If I get a pup (or even 2 pups), what would you suggest is the best way to get the dogs started on the hogs? Should I try to find someone with hounds who would be willing to let my dogs run with theirs? Would another houndsman want strange pups running with his dogs? I read where guys in Texas will rent out their 50acre pens (I know size of the pens vary, it just happened that the advertisement I read said 50acres) for you to run your dogs on their hogs? Is that a good way to start? Do guys in CA. rent pens?
Do you guys have your dogs in pens during the day when you're at work, or do you let them roam your property? If I am running my dogs on the weekends and I get the dogs out for exercise in the AM before work and then in the PM after work, will the dogs be OK with being in the kennel during the day during the week?
Hey, I know I have just thrown out a zillion questions, so if you could answer even some of them it would really help me at trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Would it be alright to have the dogs work hogs and bears or should I just stick with one game animal? I ask because I have an uncle with property near the Sequoia National Forest and it would be easy for me to work my dogs up in the Green-Horn Mtn range......
Thanks guys,
Man I just re-read my post....I sure did ask a lot of questions. Don't worry if you don't reply to all of them.
What do you guys think of Catahoula Leopard dogs?
RIFLEMAN
02-06-2003, 02:02 AM
Orso,
I would be glad to answer your questions as best I can...
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What does "gritty" mean? ###Do you mean tough and willing to scrap it out with a hog?[/b]
Many people interchange "gritty" with "aggressive". I feel that there is an important distinction between the two. I define being gritty as the willingness to stick to something. It may mean not quitting a long, arduous and challenging race, being wounded but continuing to bay or having to bay a hog or bear in thick brush. To my mind, gritty reflects the overall character of the dog and its overwhelming desire to hunt above anything else. Aggressive, on the other hand, indicates how willing a dog is to physically engage with the hog.
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When you say "wide open on track" are you refering to the dogs barking?[/b]
Yes, "open" is the term used to denote that the dog barks while running the animal as opposed to being a "silent" or "still-mouthed" dog that won't bark until bayed or treed.
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If I get a pup (or even 2 pups), what would you suggest is the best way to get the dogs started on the hogs? Should I try to find someone with hounds who would be willing to let my dogs run with theirs? Would another houndsman want strange pups running with his dogs?[/b]
The first thing I would after deciding that I am willing to commit myself entirely to this sport is to learn all I can about it. You do not want to have to learn as you go while you are having to train your first dogs; they may suffer as a result of your ignorance and lack of experience. I got started back in sixth grade where I was fortunate enough to meet a new kid at my school whose dad was a houndsman. I hunted with them for two years before I felt ready to own my own hounds. I have been doing it for 16 years, owned several good dogs and have enjoyed a good deal of success and notoriety. Yet in all this time, I have never pretended to have the sport mastered or know all the answers; it's a continual learning process. That is one of the many wonderful things about this sport; you can take it as far as you are capable of.
I would recommend that you try to meet some dog hunters in your area. Many older hunters in their 60's and 70's like a younger guy who can handle the dogs and go to the treed or bayed game for them. This would be an excellent opportunity for you to learn the ropes, meet some hunters and get some hands on experience under your belt all at the same time. Once you have proven yourself to be reliable, your new hunting buddy would probably encourage you to get a dog or two of your own.
I won't lie to you about being able to start hunting with someone else right away. For all the wonderful aspects of the sport, houndsmen are notoriously fraternal, keeping to themselves more often than not. It may be difficult for you to break into the "inner circle" but any houndsmen worth your time would hopefully recognize the good he would be doing his sport by offering to help you along.
I would also begin subscribing to some magazines that would help you gain a better idea of what's involved with the sport. Gaining insight on what people are saying about each of the breeds will help you decide what breed suits you. Some you might look into would be Bayed Solid, BoarHunter and Full Cry.
Pups can be trained without other hounds around, provided you have some knowledge of how to go about things. The better the breeding of the pup and the more effort you put into its training, the more likely the dog will turn out to be a keeper. My number one rule is: EXPOSE IT TO GAME. Get the dog on as many hogs as possible so that it can learn its craft. If at all possible, put it out on only sows or small boars; we don't want to traumitize it right out of the gate. Let him build up some confidence and get quite a few hogs under his collar before asking him to hold a rank ol' boar for ya. However, if you suspect that you have an inferior animal on your hands and have exhausted all efforts only to meet with failure time and time again, do not let your pride or the sentimentality of your first dog get in the way. Do what is right for you, the dog and the breed that you choose to adopt as your own. Learn from your mistakes, cut your losses and move on. The quality of the dogs you choose to keep in your pen will reflect your own character. In the world of hound hunting, you are judged not by the color of your skin, but by the content of the character of your dogs.
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I read where guys in Texas will rent out their 50acre pens (I know size of the pens vary, it just happened that the advertisement I read said 50acres) for you to run your dogs on their hogs? Is that a good way to start? Do guys in CA. rent pens?[/b]
Putting your dogs on penned hogs is an excellent training tool. You are assured of being able to physically expose your dogs to game time and time again. This is the most critical factor in the training of a well-bred dog that has potential. Unfortunately, running hogs with dogs is not nearly as popular here in California as it is in Texas and I know of no pens created for that purpose.
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Do you guys have your dogs in pens during the day when you're at work, or do you let them roam your property?[/b]
My dogs stay in the kennel unless they are being hunted. I hunt Walker hounds primarily, who were born, built and bred to hunt. They have a wanderlust that does not make them ideally suited as a "porch dog" that will stick around the house until it is time to go hunting. Many of the cur breeds lend themselves well to this lifestyle, but I have never owned nor been around hounds that could be trusted not to wander off.
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If I am running my dogs on the weekends and I get the dogs out for exercise in the AM before work and then in the PM after work, will the dogs be OK with being in the kennel during the day during the week?[/b]
I personally keep my dogs in the kennel at all times except when hunting. I want my dogs to know that when the kennel doors open and they are given the OK command, that they are to head straight to my dogbox and load up. They do not get their exercise around my place; they get it when I take them out. There are many instances where I don't take them hunting per se, I will just road them along 10 miles of local levee road.
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Would it be alright to have the dogs work hogs and bears or should I just stick with one game animal?[/b]
I personally prefer a dog that will run anything I want it to. I hunt in country that has bear, hog, coon, bobcat and fox and I want to be able to run whatever I can, whenever I can. I personally do not think that this "jack of all trades" approach will detract from the quality of my dogs as some do. You will find that some dogs either make better varmint dogs (fox and cat) while others make better big game or coon dogs. The mentality necessary to be the best are very different between the types of game. My dogs can run bobcat well and fox only so so, but they are excellent for running hogs and bear. In fact, my dogs would rather run hogs than anything else. I even had a dog that left a treed bobcat to go bay two boars.
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What do you guys think of Catahoula Leopard dogs?[/b]
I have a dog that is 1/4 Catahoula who is an excellent hog and bear dog. He is well-built, fast, has a good mouth and a lot of endurance. He is the first non-Walker I have ever owned and taken pride in.
Rifleman.
Here again "Thank you" for your thought-out response!!
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The first thing I would after deciding that I am willing to commit myself entirely to this sport is to learn all I can about it. You do not want to have to learn as you go while you are having to train your first dogs; they may suffer as a result of your ignorance and lack of experience.[/b]
This is step one. You are absolutely right.
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I would recommend that you try to meet some dog hunters in your area.[/b]
Are there any "Associations" in California? Any yearly gatherings that I could attend, even if up north? I thought I would put up a flyer at feed stores or a Vet's offices' in the outlying rural areas...(just a thought as I am trying to brainstorm here).
What does "cull" mean? Is it just getting rid of a dog that is not going to be a good hunter, or is it putting-down the animal?
I just read an article about having your dog be a one-game hunter, but I think where I live, the dog would benefit more if I did hunt multiple types of game. It would open up the amount of hunting-time the dogs would have in the mountains. I guess I agree more with you line of thinking.
Thanks
RIFLEMAN
02-08-2003, 12:11 PM
Orso,
Glad to be of some help.
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Are there any "Associations" in California? Any yearly gatherings that I could attend, even if up north? I thought I would put up a flyer at feed stores or a Vet's offices' in the outlying rural areas...(just a thought as I am trying to brainstorm here).[/b]
There are several clubs scattered throughout the state, but finding one in your area may be difficult. They advertise in Full Cry from time to time, though the enthusiasm for doing so varies. However, the largest, most reliable and most politically influential association is the California Houndsmen for Conservation. They are the central organization made up of several local houndsman's clubs. They meet monthly in Sacramento. I can get you their contact number if you wish.
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What does "cull" mean? Is it just getting rid of a dog that is not going to be a good hunter, or is it putting-down the animal?[/b]
http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-soapbox.gif Techically, it means to remove an individual. The manner in which you do so is up to you. However, the context that I use it in is to put the animal down. My rationale is this:
*An inferior dog will not go to other hunters- For my sake, I do not want to get a bad name with other hunters by selling or giving away a dog that is inferior. For the dog's sake, I don't want it to be passed around from one unsatisfied hunter to another, only to find its way to the pound, where it will spend the last few days of its life in strange surroundings, around strange dogs and strange people before being euthanized by a stranger...scared out of its mind the whole time.
*An inferior animal will not go to other people as a pet- I do not want to degrade the quality of the breed by giving it away as a pet. When you do so, you are introducing non-hunters to your breed, revealing to them the finer qualities of your breed, and opens up the possibility for your breed being sought after as a pet. This has destroyed several good hunting dog breeds in the past. Furthermore, it encourages the potential for your breed being this week's trendy "must-have" pet. We have seen it with Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, Dalmations, etc. We are seeing it with Labs and Beagles these days. The breed gets popular "overnight" and draw irresponsible breeders hoping to make a quick buck and irresponsible owners trying to get in on the next big thing...all to the detriment of the breed. The breed is always damaged after this has taken place, always.
If you value your breed, you will do the right thing and put the dog down...for its sake, for your sake, for the sake of the breed. / http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-soapbox.gif
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I just read an article about having your dog be a one-game hunter, but I think where I live, the dog would benefit more if I did hunt multiple types of game. It would open up the amount of hunting-time the dogs would have in the mountains. I guess I agree more with you line of thinking.[/b]
I guess I could see where the saying, "jack of all trades, master of none" would be true, but I have not personally seen it. Though I hunt my dogs on a great many things, I do not see their abilities as a hog dog being diminished by it. The opposite would not be true however. I think that it detracts from my dogs' abilities as cat dogs by running hogs. The style of the chase and the mentality required are at opposite ends of the spectrum. However, in your case of hunting hogs and bear, the style of the chase is one and the same so I do not seen any adverse affects from it.
Terrierman
03-05-2003, 01:58 AM
The Jagd is an all around good hunter, possibly even the best all arounder, But from my expeirience and 20+ years hunting with Dogs is master of None.
Here in America some HUNTERS are going away from that "do everything" tradition and are being used for specific hunting needs which could make them unequalled.
Good trackers, and Unless your running a few that can get along, they will commonly Bay up instead of engage. which is good or bad depending on what you want. But , seriously with all the strains today I'm sure you can find ones that are perfect for your needs.
If there is any draw back to the Jagd, I don't think they can take the punishment they put out. But because of their superiority in all other feilds perhaps some selective breeding or crosses in the future could fix that, if it is in fact some sort of short fall, which I belive is not at this time, But now that the breed has gotten so popular with Non-hunters only the future will tell.
Ofcourse The Jadg Kennels will argue this up and down, however if you can find an "acual" hunter that uses Jagds as well as other breeds on Boar etc...you see that to be the general consensus.
I will have some Jagd crosses By the Fall....
Terrierman,
Thanks for the reply. I just sent you an email, I am not sure if you will get it though I have had some problems with my connection.
What are you crossing you Jagd's with?
What did you mean by [/QUOTE]If there is any draw back to the Jagd, I don't think they can take the punishment they put out.[quote] ?
What are you hunting? What is in your pen?
Thanks
Terrierman
03-11-2003, 02:48 AM
Hello Orso,
Yea, I dropped you an email back. I really want to use the Jagd as a lurcher cross, specifcally for Yote. I don't own a solid running dog as of right now but I'd been keeping my eyes out. Most likely a GreyHound, But a Saluki is not out of the question. I beleive the above ground qualities and tenacity will be enough to put the bang in there. The more common cross would be APBT X Greyhound for this duty works excellent in the open areas.
What I meant about the possibly draw backs "IF" there is any , (remember the "IF" I put in there) is that the few JAGDS i expeirence don't always have the ability to take the punishment some game delievers, like Yote, Badger or Coon. They seem to get more injured but because of various strains of Jagds (as other breeds) it's really hard to blanket them all , but I will certainly see in the near future.
I've taken most everything in Cali with Dogs, this season has been slow with primary focus on Coon using Patterdales which is really exciting.
I used to focus on Boar, but I haven't had the time this season to do the traveling. I've also taken Badger and Yote.
I have my hands in everything....But I farmed Out my Female Jagd for some breedings waiting to hear some good news...which will be pure Jagds, But my first crosses will be the Lurchers...
Terrierman,
What is a Lurcher?
Do many hunters use Greyhounds or Saluki's? Are these "find" dogs? Woud they be crossed with another breed or purebreds?
Hey I sent you an email from my work address earlier in the week, did you get it?
Would like to talk with you, give me a call if you want.
Thanks, Mike
Terrierman
03-15-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Orso@Mar 14 2003, 06:42 PM
Terrierman,
What is a Lurcher?
Do many hunters use Greyhounds or Saluki's? ###Are these "find" dogs? ###Woud they be crossed with another breed or purebreds?
Hey I sent you an email from my work address earlier in the week, did you get it?
Would like to talk with you, give me a call if you want.
Thanks, Mike
A Lurcher is a type of dog, Normally, but not always a Sight Hound crossed with a Terrier or Bull breed depending on the purpose.
Lurchers are dogs that are set on quarry/game that has been spotted and not for searching. a Lurcher must have the speed to catch as well as the power to catch, and is always kept on Lead until ready to do their job.
a Common mix is something like 3/4 greyhound x 1/4 Pit Bull, for taking game such as Yote. Saluki's are sometimes used as well as Deerhounds although they seem to be not as common.
I've talked to a Guy who likes to put a Little Border Collie Blood in the Mix for smarts, making it something like about 3/4 greay hound x 1/8 Border x 1/8 Pit Bull.
This is where I have been thinking about crossing a Jagd into GreyHound, I think Jagds are pretty quick already and they seem to have the stamina and tenacity as well.
These dogs are capable of taking down Deer as well, which ofcourse was the primary purpose for DeerHounds at one time.
a fun way to hunt Yote with Lurchers is to Call them in and have the Handler about 100+ yards down wind, when you(dogs) spot the Yote coming in you release, dog runs down the yote and catches it.
For smaller quarry like Rabbit etc..., the trick is to get the Rabbit to Bolt from it's hiding place, you can do that a Number of ways, The best way is using Ferrets (which are illegal in Cali, but legal in NV and AZ) . This method allows you to use what are called Purse Nets which are staked over exit holes, the Rabbit will bolt into the Purse, wammo good rabbit, good eating. You can also just cover a couple holes and leave 1 or 2 open, which are watched by the Lurcher handler and when the Rabbits coming Bolting out for a get away you release the dogs.
For Fox or Coon instead of using Ferrets small terriers work best , I prefer Patterdales however there are some rare strains of Jack Russels or Borders that will do the trick if you just want the quarry to Bolt. The latter two breeds have a tendency not to Draw the quarry out when they have it cornered below ground , making a Locater collar very nessesary to find your dog.
Terrierman
03-20-2003, 03:17 AM
Here is a nice little Jagd Bitch:http://www.sportingcollars.com/images/alley.jpg
Terrierman,
Nice looking dog. Is the one you are trying to get pregnant? How is that going by the way?
Have you ever hunted raccoon here in SoCal? With your Patterdale? I would definitely like to go out with someone next year (as I think the season is closed for this year) and check that out.
How would you train a Jagd to hunt? Would you put him/her with other dogs already finished or is there a way to train a dog without having a pack for them to run with?
I would like to find out how many other hunters(w/ dogs) are located here in SoCal. Maybe we could all get together and work the dogs together.
I want to get a dog, but I still don't know how to properly train her without a pack for them to run with.
Any ideas from anyone out there in JHP land?
Mike
Terrierman
03-21-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Orso@Mar 20 2003, 08:22 AM
Terrierman,
Nice looking dog. ###Is the one you are trying to get pregnant? ###How is that going by the way?
Have you ever hunted raccoon here in SoCal? ###With your Patterdale? ###I would definitely like to go out with someone next year (as I think the season is closed for this year) and check that out.
How would you train a Jagd to hunt? ###Would you put him/her with other dogs already finished or is there a way to train a dog without having a pack for them to run with?
I would like to find out how many other hunters(w/ dogs) are located here in SoCal. ###Maybe we could all get together and work the dogs together. ###
I want to get a dog, but I still don't know how to properly train her without a pack for them to run with.
Any ideas from anyone out there in JHP land?
Mike
Thats the Jagd I owned and farmed out to another Jadg guy. Yea, he is working on breeding her.
Yea, I use Patterdales, other dogs as well, but it's really fun with the Patterdales if your going 1 on 1, however keep in mind i'm not running them like they would with Hounds. I use them to draw in tight spots Dens, Rock quarries, abandon Buildings, Log Piles, dense brush...
I've always use a Finshed dog to show the younger ones whats up. There instinct just comes out from there.
One of the important reasons to have you younger dogs work with Finished dogs is so they will learn to work with other dogs and not be dog aggressive.
One thing to do is get your Pup excited about rats, hopefully , this shouldn;t be hard. Then take a Squirt Bottle with water and add a Little rat crap and squirt it on the ground across the yard, try short distances at first and always have that award at the end with alot of praise( A rat in a Shoe Box is good). slowly build up making it further and more difficult to find that shoe box.
RIFLEMAN
03-22-2003, 05:56 PM
Hey guys,
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but as a rule, Jesse would like two-way communication to be directed through PM's or emails.
Terrierman
03-22-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by RIFLEMAN@Mar 22 2003, 05:56 PM
Hey guys,
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but as a rule, Jesse would like two-way communication to be directed through PM's or emails.
Absolutely, it has turned out that way...I was trying to keep it informational and still directed towards the readers at large. and hoping to draw in some more of the public comments on Jagd's or lurchers etc...
I know there are people out there that own these dogs in So Cal, and it shure would be nice to have them drop in...
Rifleman,
If the posts above are seen as "two way communication", then I apologize. I am having a great time with JHP and enjoy reading the posts. However, as I quickly scan the previous posts, I don't see in my opinion how they are considered "two way communication". The reason for my posts in the Hound section was to hopefully learn a little more about hunting/training hounds. and possibly hook-up with some local hunters. I thought I was asking pertinant questions to hound hunting, and in my last post even asked for feedback from anyone reading the posts. Comments about "I sent you a post" or "I sent you an email from work", I thought were OK as I have read several similar comments on several other threads on other topics.
By the way Rifleman you have been very helpfull in previous posts. Thank you.
All is good, and I will keep posts as open to the general population as possible. Let's get back to hound hunting conversation.
Sincerely,
Mike
RIFLEMAN
03-23-2003, 04:41 PM
No harm done, guys. After going back and reading your posts again, perhaps I was being too nit picky. It just seemed that the conversation was centric to you guys; Not to say that you were attempting to keep others from joining in, but the details of the conversation seemed like they could be tailored to two-way correspondance.
While the information provided could be useful to others, Jesse has asked the moderators to encourage that two-way commuication be limited on the forums. Where the distinction should be is uncertain in my opinion.
As a dog hunter, the last thing I would ever intend to do is muzzle a good flow and exchange of ideas in this forum now that it is finally starting to get going...so please do not cease posting on my account.
***I guess what I am trying to say with all this is to be mindful of Jesse's wishes and use discretion when deciding whether to reply via post or PM/email.***
RIFLEMAN
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