Where are all the problematic Sidelocks?

[AMMOe]

I like to follow the muzzleloading section of this forum and I got thinking today that you see very few questions from "traditional" blackpowder shooter compared to the numerous problems posted by "In-Line" shooters. Is it a matter of math -meaning are there just so many more Inline shooter that the number of problems seems to be higher?- Or are the Inlines really that troublesome. I never could be bothered to shoot an Inline gun (don't like the looks!) so I am really curious. I have a buddy that has gone through 4 of the inlines in the last 7 years. None of the changes seemed to be to "up grade" as much as a search for a less troublesome rifle. Sure makes me wonder.~Andy

[ToddP]

Interesting point. I have 4 sidelocks sitting in the gun cabinet now. Had my PA longrifle out in the woods Saturday as part of PA's rifle season. I plan on carrying it the rest of the year. No problem here with shooting them. Great fun to be had with them!!

Todd

[woodseye]

I had a sidelock from Red Head and it wouldn&#39;t shoot every time.Called factory and they said to add some powder to the bolster for surer iginition.It worked but was a pain in the neck.Bought a Traditions 50 caliber inline and put a cheap Bushnell scope on it.Never a misfire,never a problem since.Shoots tight groups and fires everytime.Took the sidelock to a country auction near my house and got within $5 of my money back! Never buy a sidelock again,the inlines are the way to go as far as I&#39;m concerned.I don&#39;t care about being traditional just in getting my deer and shooting accurately.The scope has really been a big help to 50 year old eyes also.For me they both loaded one at a time thru the muzzle but one was a lot more reliable http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif


woods

[ToddP]

Another think on sidelocks, you get what you pay for. There are different qualities of frizzens and locks. Cheap frizzens will cause you all kinds of problems trying to get a good spark.

Todd

[woodseye]

All I know is I got a cheap inline and I love it! Side lock was made by the same company that made my inline but it wasn&#39;t reliable.Fire goes better in a straight line then around a corner.The cap stays much more waterproof and protected from the weather now than on the sidelock also.I think the sidelocks don&#39;t sell as well as the inlines either,you can tell by the number of pages the catalogs devote to them compared to the inlines.I think the reason you see more posts on inline problems is because there are way more inlines in use now.I just like the added advantages of an inline for hunting.I see now that they are starting to make sidelocks with hotter iginition(musket caps,209 primers) and in stainless,and capable of handling 100-150gr powder charges and tapped for scope mounts but they are in the minority.My guns sweetspot is 130gr and that was way beyond what my sidelock was rated to shoot.I can shoot to 200yds with this gun and that wasn&#39;t in the range of probability with the sidelock(iron sights,short barrel,90gr powder charges).I&#39;m ready to move to a Savage and get minute of angle accuracy and a sealed breech.Nothing against the traditional guns but for me the inline is the way to go for deer hunting.


woods

[fishhunter]

I have two inlines a 50 and a 54 both quite accurate and every time I pull the trigger, they go boom.
My next muzzleloader will be a traditional, because variety is the spice of life, and more guns means more fun.

[ToddP]

Woods,

I agree. The reason there are more post is that the majority of people would rather use an inline. It&#39;s easier to use. People like things easy. Just look at the number of traditional archery hunters vs compund bows vs rifle hunters. Number of participants increase with the ease of use of the weapon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I can shoot to 200yds with this gun[/b]
Why not just use a rifle with on shell loaded?? Same thing. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif

This topic reminds me of when I shot black powder competively in VA. It was team compitition and at the end of the day they would put the fasted BP team up against a local National Guard unit with their M-16s. The targets would be 32 claybirds on a cardboard backer. Team to break all 32 birds the fastest wins. The BP team always won. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif

Todd

[woodseye]

Why not use a rifle with one shot? Cause the state won&#39;t let me! I follow the law so its loaded from the muzzle and single shot.My state created a muzzleloader season after Knight was making and selling his inlines with scopes and they never intended it as a "primitive" season.They put it at the end of all other seasons and allowed any form of ML with any option.Smokeless powder,scopes,hotter iginition,and inlines were all allowed from the beginning.I take advantage of whats legal so I can make the most of my ML season.I intend to buy a Savage and step up to smokeless next for ease of clean-up and a little better accuracy.I know a couple hunters getting unreal accuracy out of the Savages(sub minute of angle).They are getting ready to start a primitive season before the other seasons right in the bow hunters season for primitives.When the traditionalists and bow flingers get done fighting and its settled maybe I will get a flintlock or a bow and take advantage of that season.Ain&#39;t hunting got a lot of variety?My stainless scoped inline is the best $200 I ever invested.

woods

[AMMOe]

Interesting responses! I shoot sidelock percussion rifles and have had few misfires. The only one on game was a long time back, my fault, and I made sure never happened again! Since then (like, 1978) I have always known that the gun will go boom when I pull the trigger. Accuracy is excellent with those guns of mine that are capable of it, by virtue of good sights and such. My 53 Hawken will shoot quite well out to 200 yards; I can shoot about 1.5 MOA with a 205 grain RB @ just under 2000 ft/sec. From my experiences, a person who can&#39;t get good reliability from a sidelock either hasn&#39;t mastered it&#39;s use or had some mechanical problem. I must agree with ToddP: You do get what you pay for, but even the worst can be made to go off, at least.

The comment about using 209 primers was interesting. Using smokeless primers for muzzleoaders isn&#39;t new: Benchrest shooters of the 1880&#39;s were using them. I think anybody who shoots blackpowder rifles ought to read "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle", by Ned Roberts. It&#39;s a real eye opener and has some guns depicted that look like sidelock-inline hybrids. Entertaining reading, if nothing else!~Andy

[ToddP]

Ahhhh, Tony Knight. Isn&#39;t he a gem. He lobbied hard, real hard to get PA to institute an inline season. I would always see him at the Commissioners meetings. There wasn&#39;t any organized support for inlines but Tony was always there to speak his 2 cents. Now PA has a week of "inline" season in October. It is being used as a management tool to cull out the pre-rut does. Trying to lower then number of does before they are bred. Suppose to reduce the amount of energy a buck expends chasing deer. Anyhow... I&#39;m off topic again. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-cool-shades-down.gif

Todd

[woodseye]

Well my sidelock didn&#39;t go off every time and it had nothing to do with a failure to understand or master the concept of the gun and everything to do with needing some powder in the bolster every shot.My hunting partners Lyman has done the same thing to him.If you like sidelocks thats a personal preference I guess but i&#39;ll take an inline everytime.Different strokes.The inline is more dependable and a lot more fun to shoot.If you can shoot 1 1/2moa or 3" groups at 200yds with a side lock and iron sights thats good,I prefer a good scope and some sabots myself.Sounds like they both load from the front and both do the same job. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif I&#39;ll leave the sidelock fun to you guys and use my old inline "cull" gun http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-ren.gif


woods

[jim in illinois]

I think Fishhunter said it best with variety is the spice of life. One thing I have noticed with hunting friends, family, etc. is that all the older more experienced guys like the trad. guns better. I think my problem is I dont personally spend as much time with mine as say my dad does. He shoots his year round, is constantly adjusting things, changing things for the better, trying new loads and powder and I personally dont have the time to do that. I&#39;m sure if I devoted more time to it I would be just as good of a shot with my sidelock as my inline. Jim

[fishhunter]

Despite what some traditional shooters may think, not all inline shooters are trying to re-invent our sport with some sort of high tech. advantage. I for one, don&#39;t use a scope, 209 primers, sabots or a 26 in. barrel.
I do however, like to shoot a stainless inline with conical slugs, musket caps, and synthetic black powder.
I have never shot an animal past 100 yds. and I would much rather sneek to inside 50 yds. To seal the deal, so to speak.

The reason I hunt with an inline as described above is not because it&#39;s easy, It isn&#39;t. I like a muzzleloader that is corrosion resistant, light weight, and a challenge to master.
Just my .02

[woodseye]

I think to take Fishunters post a step farther,ML is made up of different groups of hunters doing it different ways.There is room for all in this sport, traditionalists and high techs alike.We all have different rigs but if they fit the state laws where we shoot them and they please us thats all that counts.I don&#39;t look down on other methods and hope none look down on mine.As seen in above posts both gun styles can be lethal at 200yds and make great deer killers.The thing that makes my gun different than a single shot rifle as I was asked by Todd is,It uses no shell case,has a charge of powder poured in the muzzle and a bullet shoved down the barrel,followed by placing a cap on the nipple just like any other style percussion ML.I don&#39;t see where what type of bullet,what make of powder,or what type of cap makes much difference as long as its been approved by the state you live in.Inlines are as much a part of ML hunting as sidelocks or flintlocks,and I notice up here now that the primitive shooters are in a struggle with the bowhunters for a primitive season that they are asking the inline shooters to step up and support them even though the inlines won&#39;t have a part in the new primitive season.They are saying hey guys we&#39;re fellow ML hunters join our cause and help us to be heard by joining our numbers.We are all in this sport together and I support them as most of the inliners are doing.This looking down our nose at each other because of what we shoot goes away when your supporting the sport of ML for its betterment for all.In Maine black powder hunters hang together.

woods

[ToddP]

I just want to clarify that I don&#39;t intentionally look down my nose at someone if they want to use an inline or not. I might throw a little jab here or there, ie. "why not just use a single shot?" but I don&#39;t mean anything bad by it.

Here in PA the inlines have a purpose as I explained above. I have no problem with them, just not my cup of tea right now. Have I ever thought of getting one, sure, but then I got this new longrifle. Will I ever consider getting one again? I&#39;m sure I probably will.

My dad was big into flintlocks. He plays with more civil war era guns now but when I was little he made himself a longrifle and customized a T/C Hawken for me. Both flinters. PA has a long tradition of using flintlocks after Christmas and I don&#39;t see this season being modified at all to include inlines. Instead, the inlines got their own seaon in October.

I enjoy the challenge of the flintlocks as do may other PA hunters. It&#39;s a great time to be in the woods.

As always, be safe and have fun no matter what you are hunting with.

Todd

[FTTPOW]

I&#39;m sure I could make lots of you fellas mad if I told you how I REALLY felt about synthetic stocks, stainless barrels, primers vs caps, saboted jacketed bullets and scopes on muzzleloaders, so I won&#39;t. Suffice it to say that I think they would make great rebar in concrete and tomato stakes in the garden.

[woodseye]

Like to stay and chat with ya FTTPow but we got to take the stainless scoped synthetic inline out and try to slide one of them Barnes expanders into a big old bucks shoulder before dark. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-hair-raisin-blue.gif I love ML hunting!


http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif woods

[wmidbrook]

When I first got into muzzleloading, I bought a T/C Renegade in &#39;96. I had my share of misfires etc. But, I learned techniques that made it a pretty darn reliable weapon. But, I could never get a very accurate load worked up with it. The inlines seemed to do better for the same price range from what I saw @ Clarks Rifle range up in Vancouver, WA and the one over in Sherwood, OR. So, I made the switch over inlines looking for more accuracy and a gun that would handle sabots ( a 1 in 30&#39;ish twist).

Had I a $1,000 or so to put into a really good sidelocke, I probably would have done so at the time in a .50 with a 1 in 60&#39;ish twist for patch & ball or a .45 cal with roughly a 1 in 20 twist for long distance with heavy conicles....The long distance competition with sidelocks shoot out there to 500 yards. I think there&#39;s even a group that does 1000 yds but that may be just blackpowder cartridge.

Now that traditional muzzleloader (sidelock) weapon hunts opening up in West like in Idaho, I may get one again.

I&#39;ll probably hold off &#39;til retirement when I&#39;ve got the time and money to do the whole enchilada---mountain man leather outfit, fur hat, hatchet, musket, bowie, ugly mule and several rendevous a year.

[woodseye]

Don&#39;t need a weatherman to know which way the wind on this forum blows..................a strong "traditional" wind.


see ya guys woods http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-wavin-yel.gif

[ToddP]

Either way.. that wind smells of sulfer. Peee Youuuuu http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif

[MrRee]

I have tryed all of them, for fun, I like the flint-lock best. but for hunting for meat, I will take the traditional ! I do not have to worry about malfunction with it as I do with a flintlock or inline.

As for inline, I sold mine!!

[angusguy]

I have a sidelock that I love! I have never had any problems(yet) and would you believe during rifle season I have a hard time deciding ml, or scoped singleshot 25-06! http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-rolleyes-green.gif