The shape of Union Tract 11/2011

[shadowlawnskysthelimit]

Last weekend I hunted in Union Tract, what a joke! I amtalking about the condition of the fields. From the road they look ok, just ok!Still the same s*^%%y rye grass planted again that has minimal nutritionalvalue to geese. Why are'nt they planting Winter Wheat or better yet, how aboutsome Alfalfa. Answer - cuz the guy who runs SBNWR does not want us killing"HIS GEESE"!!! He (Chris Schoneman) will tell ya that DU told himthat Rye Grass has almost the same food value as Alfalfa? Really, then whydoes'nt Elmore have it planted in his fields. Answer - cuz it does'nt, if itdid Elmore would have it planted in his fields due to the fact that Rye Grassis dirt cheap compared to Alfalfa. Enough on the food issue!!

I stated b/4 that the fields looked ok from the road, it isnot until you enter them and walk them that you see some of the worst fieldwork I have ever seen. Look at the pic's, the camera shots dont really show thetrue size of the dirt clods, wait bad choice of words; I'll call them bowlingballs. Why? Because many are the size or half the size of bowling balls. Themajority left are as big a baseballs or bigger. I was totally taken back by allof this! Dont get me wrong I know this guy (Chris) does'nt want us there, I getit! It appears that the field was deep disced then seeded, if it wasdragged to cover the seed it was a shoddy job. After looking at the pic's, somemight say "Oh that is just one area, look at the field in the backgroundit does'nt look to bad"! Wrong, it is deceiving the entire fields looklike this, some areas better, but not much; and others are even worse!!!!!!


http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/shadowlawnskysthelimit/009.jpg

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad295/shadowlawnskysthelimit/008-1.jpg


Now someone might be thinking " Could you do better?" Damm straight!! Growing up my father owned several orchards inthe Bakersfiel/Porterville/Strathmore area; where my brothers and I earned ourspending money/ allowances. I could run a tractor better for a finished field than whoever did Union by the time I was 14 yrs. old. I should add that I am only partially downing the tractor operator, cuz he does what he is told, and can only spend the time to do the job right if he is given the right amount of time! Which he could not have been !!

This type of work is bad on a several levels:
1. The larger clods/boulders impede good use of seed. Which is a waste of money!!!
2. The same clods/boulders impede good water coverage during flooding periods. Which is an even more crucial waste of money!!
3. If this area is to be used as a food for the geese in the area, this type of farming is bad news. Geese like reasonably flat bottoms where they can walk unimpeded as the feed. Example look at the Closed Zone at Wister - need I say more!!
4. And probably the most important to me and to some of you!! Is "Access"; when I use this term I mean the ability to with some ease to walk or pull a cart to the blinds and back again. Now, most of the men I hunt with are older; 65 yrs. and older, they could barely walk in this type of field. Wait till some of you get on at Union Tract you will see what I mean. If you ask me this is by design to keep some discouraged enough to not even attempt to hunt this area.

I am asking all of you who hunt Union Tract and after you have been there and seen for yourself to call or email Cris Schoneman and tell him of your displeasure at his work or lack there of. It may go in one in ear and out the other; but if it happens enough he might think twice next year about his commitment to us, the people whose tax money pay his salary. In the meantime I am looking into find out who his bosses are up the ladder, then I am going to write, call to all who will hear me, I will continue up the food chain until I find the right ear who sees the monies used/wasted and the work being done to farm Union Tract as a total lack of leadership. Sorry, But it is what it is and I am done with people who straight up dont give a crap about guys like us or; what we want or; would like to see or; would even be willing to help get it done.

Someone correct me if I am wrong! Many years ago the Fed's wanted the DFG to take over the everday business of Union Tract, but the State did not want the hassle. With a guy like Rick at Wister, man I wish they would have. Look at the fields of Wister and then look at Union Tract and tell me what you think!! Nuff Said!!!!!

[slinky_70]

Absolutely horrible conditions. I can only hope that you can get to the higher ups and maybe start cleaning house on the morons who think they are their birds. WRONG they belong to everyone. AND we pay this morons salary

[slanttop357]

If this guy really cared about the Geese he would of gave them a nice landing strip, that is not right.

[darla]

:Humane Society of UThe manager of Sonny Bono is probably a member in good standing. At very minimum does not care about the quality of the hunt or the experience he is giving the hunting public. Please post his contact address and that of his bosses so maybe we can start a letter writing campaign.

[takeem]

I haven't had the chance to hunt union this year yet. By the looks of it, I wouldn't be wasting a draw on it. Think how dangerous the walking is going to be when the rye gets over the top of those boulders. The resting areas don't look like that!!

[baco]

Its a disgrace no reason why unit one looks like a well taken care of golf course and we get crap

[shadowlawnskysthelimit]

Thanks for reading my thread and for your support now and in the future, We ( a group of guys I have hunted with for 40 yrs ) are not going to let this die, I will post names and pertinent info I as find them. For starters you can go to "Sonny Bono Wildlife Refuge" on the web and see Chris Schonemans telephone number and email address.

Also if you have friend who hunts Wister or Union and may not be on this site or any other outdoor site ask them to call if they dont agree with how things are being done, same goes for friends and family who may live in Nor. Cal; we are all in this boat together.

I guess after seeing how much has been accomplished at Wister in just 1 off season by Rick Francis and his guys ( and for the record I hardly know Rick, I met him a few months back on a work day) it got me to the mindset where I am now!! Whether its Wister, Union, or some other hunting place that folks salaries are paid from by your and my taxes; and they dont perform to an ethical standard I am gonna call em on it!!!
You know the old adage "Dont wake the sleeping Giant", well they have. I have hunted the sea since I was 10 yrs. old and I am tired of it being the bastard step-child or the place where some guy who thinks that his little place is his to do as he pleases, well I tell ya they have another thing comin!!!!!!

Thanks!!!!!

[Orygun]

Do the geese use any of the refuge then? If they were trying the prevent geese from being killed that is a dumb way to do it. Especially when you have other places such as Elmore's where the fields become that more attractive to geese. Which arguably could get more of them killed.

[baco]

Doesnt woodgrain work for this guy?

[MThomas88]

So much anger! Lol! I wouldn't worry about who works for who unless your looking for a healthy dose of troll spray.


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[crustyde]

So much anger! Lol! I wouldn't worry about who works for who unless your looking for a healthy dose of troll spray.


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Wow, that's a little unnecessary. I think Baco's point is that there is a member here that may be able to shead light on a different perspective, as this thread is one sided. Woodgrain's post have a tendency to be less reactive and a bit more informative, you should probably leave it for him.

[MThomas88]

Wow, that's a little unnecessary. I think Baco's point is that there is a member here that may be able to shead light on a different perspective, as this thread is one sided. Woodgrain's post have a tendency to be less reactive and a bit more informative, you should probably leave it for him.

Well once again some a$$clowns screwed it up for everyone! Woodgrain would have been a nice resource, I agree! But we have trolls lurking about, looking to cause problems here and abroad, so that resource is no longer available. And it was very necessary to tell the TOF trolls to take their posts elsewhere! Thanks for your concern, but only those in the know should involve themselves to avoid being bounced!


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[shadowlawnskysthelimit]

MThomas, not really sure who you are refering to as a$$clowns? I do not know you or Woodgrain, and actually gave him kudos for putting himself out there when he asked for help/suggestions in another thread some months ago!! I knew then that this would not be an easy place for him to be and that there would be those who would verbally go after him just because of his affiliation with USFWS; but I was not one of them.

As far as TOF trolls, yes I do belong to TOF and am proud of it, but I also belong to Refuge, Duck Chat and a few others along with this site. I have never been asked to leave or been kicked off of any site. I have many friends on all of these sites, and am known to be a very respectful and genuinely caring person to those who know me.


I fiqured Woodgrain might respond to this thread, but so far he has not. Maybe he has'nt read the thread I dont know, but if he chooses not to respond thats fine with me; he his a man and makes his own choices, I dont believe he needs you or any other man to speak for him.


Also not sure what you mean by "Those in the know"; does hunting the Salton Sea area for 40 yrs. make me in the know? The thread I posted was not to attack any person from this site or this site or any other; but to draw attention to an issue of great importance to those like me that have a love for a place that most think is just a s*&%hole place in the desert. For me it is a place of great memories, great friends and good times.

MThomas88, Maybe you should respond to others posts as you would have them respond to yours with respect and dignity. Has "baco" attacked you personally by asking about Woodgrain, again I have never talked to you so I would think that we could have decent discussion!!!!

[MThomas88]

MThomas, not really sure who you are refering to as a$$clowns? I do not know you or Woodgrain, and actually gave him kudos for putting himself out there when he asked for help/suggestions in another thread some months ago!! I knew then that this would not be an easy place for him to be and that there would be those who would verbally go after him just because of his affiliation with USFWS; but I was not one of them.

As far as TOF trolls, yes I do belong to TOF and am proud of it, but I also belong to Refuge, Duck Chat and a few others along with this site. I have never been asked to leave or been kicked off of any site. I have many friends on all of these sites, and am known to be a very respectful and genuinely caring person to those who know me.


I fiqured Woodgrain might respond to this thread, but so far he has not. Maybe he has'nt read the thread I dont know, but if he chooses not to respond thats fine with me; he his a man and makes his own choices, I dont believe he needs you or any other man to speak for him.


Also not sure what you mean by "Those in the know"; does hunting the Salton Sea area for 40 yrs. make me in the know? The thread I posted was not to attack any person from this site or this site or any other; but to draw attention to an issue of great importance to those like me that have a love for a place that most think is just a s*&%hole place in the desert. For me it is a place of great memories, great friends and good times.

MThomas88, Maybe you should respond to others posts as you would have them respond to yours with respect and dignity. Has "baco" attacked you personally by asking about Woodgrain, again I have never talked to you so I would think that we could have decent discussion!!!!

First of all bud, I feel your pain and agree with what's being talked about in this thread. Secondly, many people belong to several blogs, but the our Jesse's family has been attacked repeatedly by several TOF trolls looking to start problems. If your not one of the trolls I'm referring to then let it go. The trolls I'm referring to know who they are as do we.

As for Woodgrain, my brother has contributed a great deal of information here and only been harassed as a result, therefore he will not be commenting on anything to do with USFWS in the interest of self preservation. We would both be more then happy to meet and chat with you in person at the Wister on our next trip. Send me a PM if your interested.


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[shadowlawnskysthelimit]

PM Sent!

[baco]

Wow guess I'm a troll for asking about woodgrain:skeered: Last I remember he was the one who was telling everyone he worked there and was answering questions we had.

[crustyde]

Well once again some a$$clowns screwed it up for everyone! Woodgrain would have been a nice resource, I agree! But we have trolls lurking about, looking to cause problems here and abroad, so that resource is no longer available. And it was very necessary to tell the TOF trolls to take their posts elsewhere! Thanks for your concern, but only those in the know should involve themselves to avoid being bounced!


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This is a discussion of resource management. I have poured through the thread and fail to see a post that could be interpreted as trolling. We all hope the limited resources available are used efficiently, to witness blatant waste is troubling, and we should all be "involved." The fact that i may not hunt there or be "in the know" does not invalidate my opinion or anyone else on the management of Fish and Wildlife areas.
Woodgrain is a good advocate for the sport. If there was a reasonable explanation for the conditions of Union, I am sure he would have shared. His lack of interest leads me to believe he probably shares the same frustration as the rest of us, and does not want to trash his boss on a public forum - wise. However, for you to respond to this thread with threats and accusations that are difficult to interpret, and defend Woodie against something that probably most of use fail to see, shows weak character and is really of topic.


Trolling
On our forum we encourage lively debate on most topics. What we DO NOT welcome are provocative posts that rile up the other members and start fights. Trolling is posting comments or starting threads to pick a fight. Please don't do this, it's easy to spot and usually results in a suspension.
Thread Crapping
Thread crapping is posting in a thread to kill the discussion or derail the debate. People do this when they don't like what is being said or to just start a fight.
Hijacking Threads
Hijacking is when someone makes a post that is off topic and changes the direction of the discussion. Some people do this on purpose to derail a discussion but this can also be done innocently by someone asking a question about another topic. We ask that if you have questions that are not on topic please start a separate thread about your topic. This keeps the first discussion on track and helps if the member was looking for help or an answer so the discussion doesn't turn left to a completely different subject.


kinda sums up your post

[MThomas88]

This is a discussion of resource management. I have poured through the thread and fail to see a post that could be interpreted as trolling. We all hope the limited resources available are used efficiently, to witness blatant waste is troubling, and we should all be "involved." The fact that i may not hunt there or be "in the know" does not invalidate my opinion or anyone else on the management of Fish and Wildlife areas.
Woodgrain is a good advocate for the sport. If there was a reasonable explanation for the conditions of Union, I am sure he would have shared. His lack of interest leads me to believe he probably shares the same frustration as the rest of us, and does not want to trash his boss on a public forum - wise. However, for you to respond to this thread with threats and accusations that are difficult to interpret, and defend Woodie against something that probably most of use fail to see, shows weak character and is really of topic.



kinda sums up your post

Keep chumming the waters bud, you've already been warned once in another thread. As far as your statement, when someone posts negative comments about someones boss and another chimes in asking if he works for him, instigating a response about his personal feelings that may or may not be in conflict with his management in a public forum, it creates problems and is unwarranted and unwanted on this forum. To sum it up, work is work and stays there. Had that bridge not already been burned, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Were family here and we stick together, if you don't like it, press the delete button on your account and go elsewhere.


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[MThomas88]

PM Sent!

Got it bud! I'll check the calendar and give you a call. We can sit by the camp fire and give you some more info!


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[baco]

As far as your statement, when someone posts negative comments about someones boss and another chimes in asking if he works for him, instigating a response about his personal feelings that may or may not be in conflict with his management in a public forum, it creates problems and is unwarranted and unwanted on this forum. To sum it up, work is work and stays there. Had that bridge not already been burned, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Were family here and we stick together
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First off woodgrain made it clear to all of us who he was working for. Second it is on his signiture line who he works for. If he doesnt want to talk about certain subjects I'm sure most of us can understand and respect that decision. But for you say that I'm a troll and instigating a responce because you are afraid of some tof troll, last I check I have been a member of this board longer than you give it a break and let woodgrain handle his own business as grown men do.

[MThomas88]

First off woodgrain made it clear to all of us who he was working for. Second it is on his signiture line who he works for. If he doesnt want to talk about certain subjects I'm sure most of us can understand and respect that decision. But for you say that I'm a troll and instigating a responce because you are afraid of some tof troll, last I check I have been a member of this board longer than you give it a break and let woodgrain handle his own business as grown men do.

Well champ, your membership duration gives you no standing, it's all about association. As for your fear factor, you obviously know not what you speak of! If you are identified as a TOF clown, looking to start trouble, you'll end up like the rest. As for Woodgrain, his status has been well explained, so take your comments elsewhere. Your out of your league here and should probably just let it go, but most trolls don't.


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[baco]

Funny the only one here looking to start anything is yourself, infact your the only one on this whole post who got there feathere ruffed up. Worried about a troll look back at all my posts and you will find nothing of the sort, as for out of my league here give it up I guess you have it all figured out and the rest of us dont matter on jessies because were not part of the so called association you speak of. Heck the rest of us just want to see wrongs righted but I guess your happy with the shape of union track (which this post was orriginaly about)



Shadow if you find out any more info on how we can help get union back in shape let me know thru pm as for this thread I'm done dealing with trolls

[MThomas88]

I knew he couldn't resist! Lol! Bye bye feathers!


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[spectr17]

Ease up Matt, these guys are just trying to get the goose field issue fixed at Union.

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[Atwater]

What the hell was all that about?! Like watching a painfully slow train wreck across a dirt clod strewn field...

[MThomas88]

Ease up Matt, these guys are just trying to get the goose field issue fixed at Union.

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I'll give you a call in the morning and give you some more info!


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[Bullsprig1]

:popcorn:...........you guys to grow up....what a joke.

[slanttop357]

GOT BUTTER ?

[shadowlawnskysthelimit]

Good mornin all, if you are interested I have compiled a list of names and addresses in the USFWS to call/write or email. Send me a PM and I will send you a copy. I am starting with the Pacific Southwest Region staff then on up the food chain to Washington, DC offices.

I took someones advice and emailed John Carlson Jr; the current President of CWA hoping he will see the wrong doings too. I believe he is a great resource for us to use to get some answers and to ring a few bells.


One thing I ask is that you do not email, call or send letters that are disrespectful or profane to anyone on the list. It will not serve any purpose, but only to make those sending unwanted correspondence to look like fools. We want answers by doing things right!!

Thanks!!!