Draw-Loc

[marmot]

I was wondering what you guys thought of the Draw-Loc attachment that holds a bow at full draw as far as being legal during regular archery season.

Personally I think they would be OK. It would allow whoever wanted to, to use stronger bows, which might equate to reduced crippling rates and more hunters, which we need badly if we are to continue to exist as a group.

Perhaps, years ago, when game was scarcer, there was some legitimacy in being selfish but times have changed. For the record, I feel the same way about crossbows.

It's time to drop the facade about how these things would be OK for a disabled person when in fact that is a greed motivated comment. Kids could start bow hunting earlier and the most diminutive hunter could easily handle a 75 pound bow.

It has worked just fine in Ohio and it will work equally well everywhere. I say every state should legalize the crossbow and the Draw - Loc for use by everyone during the general archery season.

The Draw Loc is legal in some other states but I'm not sure which ones.

[docapi]

IMHO,
Part of the challenge of bowhunting is the preparation that you have to do to be able to take a good shot with a bow. You can't just pick up a bow on opening morning and expect to be able to take an accurate shot without spending some time at the targets.

With the crossbow or the Daw-loc I feel will be mostly (not always, but a large percentage of the time) used by the "wekend warriors" that we all despise during rifle season. These Items reduce the need for proper shooting form and the simple getting in shape to be able to draw a bow properly.

I feel that use of these devices will more likely increase the crippling rate than decrease it because there will be these "weekend warrior" type hunters that will think they can go without practice.

Unlike a rifle, where using a more powerful round can make up for a somewhat poor shot placement, a more powerful bow will not help much with a shot that does not hit the right place.

Bowshot deer do not die from the shock of the arrow hitting like they do from a rifle- they die from blood loss or lack of oxygen.

Any healthy person can draw a bow that is plenty powerful to cleanly kill a deer if they are willing to do the work and get the muscles trained to do it.

I started at 60lb. when I was 10 by sitting on the ground and pulling the string back with both hands while putting my feet on the grip. Once it was back, I could hold it with one hand, grab the grip with the other, lift the bow and take the shot.

I dont reccomend this method to anybody as it is foolish and dangerous, but it shows how determined I was to be able to shoot that bow.

Within a year, I was up to shooting the bow the proper way and had even cranked it up to the most it would go- about 78lb. No I was not some great big brute of a kid I was probably 5'2" and less than 100lb. but I pacticed every day until I was able to do it.

I do feel that a disabled person who for medical reasons cannot draw a bow should be able to use on of these devices. My 87 year old grandfather uses a crossbow because he has very little use of the first 2 figers on his right hand. He has to pull the trigger with his ring finger because the others wont do it.

I would not want a person who is legitamitely unable to draw a bow to be banned from the woods due to his or her disability, but I dont like the idea of these type of devices being used as a crutch for a perfecly capable person that simply doesnt want to do the work involved in learning to shoot properly, pacticing enough to get proficient, and getting the muscles in condition to do the job.

I once ran into a guy who was a crossbow hunter that said he could use a regular bow, but he conned the doctor into getting him a disabled permit because he felt that you could shoot so much farther with a cross bow. When I asked him why he figured the crossbow would shoot so much farther he looked at me like a I was a moron and asked me "how far can you shoot a deer with a regular 75lb bow?" I told him about 40yd was my max. He comes back with "Well, my crossbow is at 225lb-you do the math!" http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/afraid_face.gif

[BDB]

Docapi,

I agree 100% with you and I&#39;m glad you said it since it saves me quite a bit of typing http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif . I have yet to meet too many people that can shoot accurately when they can not effectively handle the draw weight of the bow.

BDB

[CWSMACKDOWN]

The Draw-Loc is illegal in West Virginia. The first few years after it came out it was legal to use, but they made it illegal to use this year. You can use it if you get some type of handicapped license.

I&#39;m not sure what you mean when you say: "It&#39;s time to drop the facade about how these things would be OK for a disabled person when in fact that is a greed motivated comment." What do you mean by a greed motivated comment? I don&#39;t see how it could let someone use a stronger bow. The hardest part is drawing the bow. This thing doesn&#39;t take off of the draw weight does it? Most newer bows have 75-85% let off anyway and are fast enough without upping the poundage.

I think it should be up to each person. If you think you need the Draw-Loc to make you a better hunter, then use it. I don&#39;t think states should let hunters use it if crossbows are illegal. I don&#39;t see much difference in the two.

[docapi]

cwssmackdown,

The reason the drawloc would let you use a heavier poundage bow is because you don&#39;t have to pull it back in the conventional manner. you put one foot on the grip of the bow and pull up on the string with both hands unti it locks into place.

Using one of these, I could easily shoot a 200lb bow, but what would be the point? The difference in energy would not really matter because you still wouldnt have enough energy to kill with shock alone like a rifle does.

Shot placement is everything.

It would probably extend the effective range of the bow, but I still need to put it in the right place.

I am not good enough to do it past about 40yd consistently. some people may be able to shoot accurately out to 50 or maybe 60yd, but even at 60yd a quality conventional bow set at normal poundages will work just fine.

I don&#39;t understand the "greed" comment either. The people who are lazy enough to use an item like this are probably going to be too lazy to scout the deer and won&#39;t get back away from the road far enough to be any competition for me anyway. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-biggrin-aqua.gif

[marmot]

Right now, most states have more deer than they need. Disease and road kill take thousands each year.

The "Greed" thing is that hard core bow hunters would rather loose them this way than have a crossbow hunter or Draw-Loc hunter in the woods with them. Most states really need to increase their annual deer harvest, especially in the face of CWD.

In my state, archers have to compete with crossbow and rifle hunters for most of the game. We are in the field at the same time and it works out. I don&#39;t have a Draw Loc so I don&#39;t know if they are legal here or not but I have taken a couple of bears with crossbow and about a dozen with a regular bow and I don&#39;t see much difference in the difficulty.

Lets share the bounty with the our fellow sportsmen, the crossbow and Draw-Lock hunters. They could be a big help towards QDM.

The Weekend Warrior comment is the same thing that people said about compound bow hunters 30 years ago and it just ain&#39;t so.

[StringShooter]

I am not in favor of any device that would hold an arrow in a cocked and ready position unless the shooter was not able to draw it back due to a medical condition.

The reason that I like to bowhunt is for the challange and preparation.

[shufigo]

"compete with other hunters for the game"???? I guess I just don&#39;t get it. I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t feel that way about the experience..........

[South]

Marmot,
I personnly think you are just trying to stir the pot, but if not then you are completely missing the point, it is not a competition, it is out of respect for the animals that we hunt. The crossbow and or draw-loc are marketed towards people as a &#39; become an instant bowhunter&#39; product. I would venture to say these &#39;instant bowhunters&#39; do most of the crippling of deer each year. If you are not proficient with your weapon of choice, stay out of the woods!

[jayber]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I don&#39;t have a Draw Loc so I don&#39;t know if they are legal here or not but I have taken a couple of bears with crossbow and about a dozen with a regular bow and I don&#39;t see much difference in the difficulty.[/b]

Why use a regular bow at all then if it&#39;s not challenging to you?

[marmot]

Yea, I admit it. I was trying to stir the pot a little. You guys are just too cool headed....hehehe

Anyway, I really do believe it wouldn&#39;t hurt a thing to have these hunters in the field with us.

There are plenty of non-disabled hunters who can&#39;t draw a strong bow and shoot accurately. The old, the young, the weak, and maybe just a regular guy or gal who feels more confident with that set-up.

Most of our seasons, up here, are laid out by the species, not the weapon. There are a few archery only areas in populated areas but for the most part we all hunt together. If it works here in Alaska I really don&#39;t see why it won&#39;t work everywhere. I think the Archery Organizations have been preaching the same WRONG sermon for so long that a lot of people just repeat it without really thinking the thing out.

[the hairless one]

They are illegal in Kansas. I dont thing people should be allowed to use them at all unless they had a medical problem. I dont think people should be able to use a crossbow unless they have a medical problem.

Things like that are alot of times used by people who are too lazy to learn how to shoot right. Those kinda people get on my nerves! I practice alot year round almost and i just shot a nice buck, made a perfect double lung shot on him at 23 yds. Do you think some goofball
could do that? I doubt it!

A goofball i know stopped by last nite and said he shot a deer but couldnt find it. I wanted to tell him if you practice maybe you would have got it! He shot his bow probly twice this year and the last time he shot it was LAST season. LAZY! Plain and simple. Makes me sick people like that with no ethics going out there wounding deer all the time.

Bad thing is this is the 3rd one he has lost in a row. The second one
turned out to be a nice buck and was found by some tresspassing pheasant hunters who told him where it was or he never would have
found it. Now he think he is a bowhunting master and he doesnt have to practice or wash his clothes.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-rant-mode.gif

rick

[AK in PA]

"Personally I think they would be OK. It would allow whoever wanted to, to use stronger bows, which might equate to reduced crippling rates and more hunters, which we need badly if we are to continue to exist as a group.

Perhaps, years ago, when game was scarcer, there was some legitimacy in being selfish but times have changed. For the record, I feel the same way about crossbows.

It&#39;s time to drop the facade about how these things would be OK for a disabled person when in fact that is a greed motivated comment. Kids could start bow hunting earlier and the most diminutive hunter could easily handle a 75 pound bow."

It&#39;s for those very reasons that I think all bows should be equipped with a draw locking device, bipod attached to the stabilizer, laser sight, gyroscopic stabilizer, and be able to shoot 400+ fps. Then again, deer still would be crippled. We&#39;d better quit using the bow and get a rifle. We could probably come up with some BS reason to use that in archery season as well, right?

Crossbows and drawlocks are for those who demand instant gratification. Trying to intrude such items into a season created by archers for other like-minded archers to enjoy a lengthy season of challenge is selfish and greedy. We don&#39;t need more more inherently accurate equipment or more horsepower. What we need to do is accept the limitations of the weapons we choose, and choose our shots wisely. Drawlocks are thankfully illegal in Pennsylvania.

[the hairless one]

Ak,
that touches on another reason i think they should be illegal. The challenge! One of the funest and hardest things about bowhunting is TRYING to get drawn on the deer without them knowing.

In my previous post i didnt mean to say that crossbows should necessarily be banned but i think their usage should be restricted to rifle season unless the user has a medical problem. Bad thing is i am sure there is alot of people who fake this just to be able to use one.

rick

[coyotebandit]

After shooting 25+ deer with a rifle, and shooting about 8-9 with a bow I can honestly say that I have never seen a deer die from shock! It&#39;s the massive internal trauma that kills, the mushrooming bullet traveling between 2-4,000 feet per second, not the shock. I have shot several deer with rifle, double lung, that ran 100+ yards, I have shot several deer with bow, double lung, that went less than 20.

I also think they should be reserved for those who need them, not just want them. I think it&#39;s pretty easy to get a crossbow permit, even though there are people who really do need them. There is much more to hunting, than just shooting!

[OhioBowHunter]

Looks like an active discussion...

I started Bowhunting in my early teens. started out with a Crossbow due to my Lack of knowledge and ability. I used it for about 3 years. Then converted to a Compound Bow. Bowhunting for me Now is the preperation, stealth and ability to take game in the field with the added Challenge that Bowhunting offers.
Crossbows and other devices eliminate that from the Eqaution for me. and does promote Laziness from the standpoint of shot placement and practice. But certain conditions and reasons do exist for the use"With that said"

My son turned 12 this year and I have introduced him to Bowhunting afield for the 1st time. I have tried to get him started on a conventional bow over the last few years and he does shoot one regularly with me,
But cannot draw a legal weight drawing bow yet that would be used to take Deer in the field.
So he also is starting out with a Crossbow, But does want to and will convert to the regular Bow when he is strong enough to do so.

Medical reasons or self limitations that prevent you from conventional bows should that limit you from Bowhunting if say a crossbow is available, I would hope not, There may be a day when I myself cannot draw the bow any longer, I would hope I would be able to still enjoy my Love of the sport, by being able to use a Crossbow or other device.
I would hope that day never does come, because it will GREATLLLLY diminish the enjoyment i get from the challenge of the sport.

Dan

[marmot]

I think some of you are missing the big picture here. Most states are near carrying limits on game, it&#39;s a glut. Longer and additional seasons haven&#39;t solved the problem.

At the same time, the number of hunters is dwindling and the number of animal rights people is increasing. I have seen the animal right zealots at work first hand. I&#39;ve had them in my face and I can tell you that we are in big big trouble! We need more hunters in the woods and allowing crossbows and draw locs is one way to do it.

As far as bow hunting for the "challenge" is concerned, that is a personal thing. Someone else using different equipment wouldn&#39;t affect your challenge so why should you dictate theirs? There are other reasons for bow hunting such as the fellowship with hunting friends, more quality time in the woods and meat on the table.

Personally, I just don&#39;t get the correlation of allowing someone to use a crossbow if they are handicapped, why not just let them use a gun? I also very much doubt that something credited with increased accuracy will increase crippling or that people who use crossbows are less responsible than someone using a regular bow.

If I had to condense all my feelings on this matter into one word, it would be SOLIDARITY.