View Full Version : Need JHO'ers' advice
12-18-2006, 03:09 PM
My old college roommate (Rocky) called me last night with a problem and I was hoping I could get your input.
Rocky owns a Sig pistol, a shotgun and a Ruger .22. Since he doesn’t have a safe, he stores them in the safe (along with Dad’s 7mm mag and .357 revolver) at his parents’ house. His dad died suddenly last year. Rocky is from a family of 10 kids, the kind that looks perfect from the outside but apparently is a disaster behind closed doors. The other day, his brother (Butch) swung by mom’s house and cleaned out the gun safe. Rocky said, “I want my guns back.” Butch said, “Here’s your shotgun and Sig, but the rest are mine.” Rocky freaked out and said, “The .22 is mine, besides, Dad wanted me to have the other guns too.” Butch tells him to pound sand. This situation touched off big dustup in the whole family and they all pretty much told Rocky, “We don’t like your wife, she’s a needy emotional blackhole and you screwed up your life when you married her. Mom & Dad spent a ton of money on your education and you’ve pissed it away jumping from job to job, you’re a loser.” Rocky tells them all (including Mom), “F off, but first gimme my guns.” They all told him to go soak his head. Rocky wants to know what his options are.
I’m no legal beagle but I told him – Sue Butch for the .22, you’ve got the paperwork that says it’s yours. It’s not a criminal matter, just a civil matter (conversion) and the judge will order it returned to him when he sees the sales receipt, etc. As to Dad’s old guns, unless there’s a written will that says he gets it he’s S.O.L. Anybody have any thoughts?
Sounds like you nailed it. Without a will he is SOL but should get the .22 back if he's got the papers. Sucks to be him. It's amazing how some families deal with stuff like this after a death. I'm glad that when my father died my family banded together instead of ripping each other a part.
12-18-2006, 03:40 PM
The first thing he has to ask himself is if his relationship with the rest of his family is worth the price of a 10-22.
He won't end up with the rest of the guns unless there is something in a will.
12-18-2006, 03:41 PM
That is a sad situation.
You know he could take legal action and maybe get his 22 back. If he want’s to go that rout, tell him to send his brother a letter with a copy of the receipt of the gun. Follow up with another letter documenting his brother’s refusal to give him the gun. Then take him to court.
But is this really about a 22? Seems it's more about bad blood between family members that has come to a head after the death of the father.
Our relationships are worth more than stuff. I'll bet he's said a few things that should not have been said. Damage is done. I would forget the 22 and walk away. Let some time go by and be pleasant to all family members. If they want to be A-holes…let them. At least your friend will not be an A-hole back at them. It’s just a shame families do this to each other. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-shakehead-blue.gif
12-18-2006, 04:24 PM
Absolutely forget about court. It will cost you many times more than the cost of almost any 22 on the market to go that route, and it will take forever..years..to get to court.
As far as the family thing, let it ride. You can pick your friends but not your family. Take a deep breath, go shoot something (legal) and enjoy your life and your wife. Best of our wishes and prayers for you to resolve this.
12-18-2006, 04:27 PM
Sometimes it's better just to move on and cut the losses.
12-18-2006, 04:39 PM
Does he have the sales receipts, and are the guns registered to him?
The law is what you can prove, if he can prove he bought, or are registered, he can fight it in court and win. Small claims costs in CA. are around $25.00 file fee.
If you prevail, you can win your guns back, and court costs.
12-18-2006, 04:44 PM
Assuming he has proof of ownership couldn't he just bypass the courts and file a stolen property report?
12-18-2006, 05:04 PM
Thanks for all the responses.
I was really close to his dad and I know he's looking down from heaven, disgusted by the whole mess. I encouraged Rocky to make peace, that's what his dad would have wanted, etc. but he's not going for it. He says he doesn't care about a $200 (Ruger .22) gun but he's worried his brother will do something with the gun and it will be traced back to him. I don't think that Butch would do anything illegal with it but I do kind of understand his concern what with CA having such screwy gun laws.
I don't think it's really about the gun, I think it's about Rocky's family kicking his ass and treating him like a screwup. He went to USC (while everybody else went to state universities) and got a business degree but his career has really failed to gain any traction. When he got out of SC he had the world by the tail but he job hopped so much (probably 15+ different employers in 15 years) that nobody wants to hire him anymore. If he had stuck with something he'd probably be rolling in dough but he's barely scraping by now. His younger brother (Butch) went to CSUN and Rocky really rubbed his nose in the fact that he went to a "real" school. Butch is a doctor now with a wife that's a hot piece of tail, he's got a nice place in Malibu, a boat, etc. and he constantly reminds Rocky that he's got a menial job and a wife that looks like bacon grease. Everybody in the family is making its mark on this world except for Rocky and they don't let an opportunity pass to make sure he knows that they know.
It's a sad situation, I feel bad for all of them - Rocky for being a screwup and the rest of his family for being so bitter that they only feel better when Rocky feels bad. The silver lining is that Rocky's sister was my squeezetoy for awhile and I almost married her but didn't. Thank God for things that don't happen, what a miserable shrew she turned out to be.
12-18-2006, 06:19 PM
Time to move on from the guns and away from that toxic family who doesn't really sound like they should be judging anybody.
Geez I've seen this so many times and it makes me sick every stinking time.
12-18-2006, 06:28 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I’m no legal beagle but I told him – Sue Butch for the .22, you’ve got the paperwork that says it’s yours. It’s not a criminal matter, just a civil matter (conversion) and the judge will order it returned to him when he sees the sales receipt, etc. As to Dad’s old guns, unless there’s a written will that says he gets it he’s S.O.L. Anybody have any thoughts?[/b]
Exactlly! That's about all he can do.
12-18-2006, 07:16 PM
Take the high road.
Someone wants to show their stripes by stealing, count it as an inexpensive way to see what their true character is and exclude them from your life.
Surround yourself with honest people (sometimes you are pretty lonely) and its well worth the cost of a couple of guns to see someones true colors. In the long run these people normally end up screwing up their lives anyhow.
12-18-2006, 07:19 PM
The one HUGE problem you have with a gun out of your possession that is registered to you or traceable to you is if someone shoots someone or commits a crime with it. No way in Hades am I letting a gun I bought be taken by anyone. I'd file a stolen gun report just to cover my arse and have triplicate copies mailed to the DOJ, county sheriff , my lawyer and city PD. That way when someone gets shot I at least have something to fall back on.
How could the cops trace it back to you? Credit card receipts, store receipts, even though stores and ATF are not supposed to run a gun registry, they do.
12-18-2006, 07:53 PM
1) I say screw the family, forget about Dad's guns, and forget about the .22... blood is not thicker than water, and it sounds like there's too much water under that bridge.
2) Call the cops and report the .22 stolen, provide the cops with the background story and the paperwork demonstrating who owns the .22, AND THEN BE SURE TO GET A COPY OF THE POLICE REPORT. The police report of the stolen firearm is the only piece of paper that matters at this point if that rifle ends up being used in a crime. Maybe your buddy will get the .22 back, maybe not, but he damn sure needs that police report.
Sad story... same thing happened in my family with a pathological liar cousin... the family patriarch's wishes were well know in that over 100 guns were to be distributed amongst the whole family, especially to the kids, but evil cousin filed suit and stopped the distribution. In the end, the family told evil cousin, fine, you can have the guns if it's that important to you, but forget about ever having a relationship with us after all the lies you told in court. Guess who's crying now? Yep, the blacksheep evil cousin trailer trash who's got all the guns, but no one to go shoot them with.
Situations like this should teach us all how important it is to have a will and have someone willing to enforce our wishes. Work things like this out before the family fued has a chance to get started.
I don't know what state Rocky and his family live in, but it reads like Mom is still living. In many states, everything that Dad had in his possession before he died is now the sole property of his spouse...Mom. The kids don't get squat until she passes, unless she chooses to honor Dad's wishes or just chooses to dole things out as she see fit. In other states, the kids and the surviving spouse are 50/50 heirs. It might be best if Rocky checks out the laws regarding this in his state.
12-18-2006, 09:05 PM
wheres the honor in standing up for you wife.his bro said some things that just wont heal intime.i probably would of beat his ass.tell your friend to forget about that stinkin family.as far as the gun,call the cops.
12-19-2006, 05:51 PM
I second what Backcountry said...I think that's the best route to take.
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