Curious About Hounds

[awackywabbit]

Saw all the activity here about the hound dogs so I thought I'd ask. ###

Do you have to train hounds to hunt or does it just come natural??

How in the world do you hunt a bear or boar with dogs??? ###Don't they get tore up or something or do they just know better then to mess with it???

Are hound folks as adament about pedigrees and such as other gun dog breeds or do you just put two "good" hounds together and hope for the best??

Seeing as the only dumb questions are the ones left unasked, I didn't want to be dumb!! :)

[RIFLEMAN]

Thanks for your interest, awackywabbit. ###Yes, there seems to be a few new houndsmen coming on board this site. ###I for one am glad to see it. ###Who knows, maybe it might grow large enough to be its own forum topic like other sites!!!

To answer your questions from my perspective (I'm sure others will offer their contributions)...

### ### *Training hounds is usually necessary to some degree. ###Teaching them to "handle" (obey commands), "load up" (get into the dogbox), "lead" (abide the leash) and other necessary traits of obedience is always necessary. ###Some hunters may incorporate other forms of discipline into the obedience of their hounds. ###I am a firm believer that dogs enjoy learning new things and I try to constantly challenge them. ###Mine for example, are additionally trained to "get in the pen" and "get in the box" when I want them to go into the kennel or doghouse, and "stay in the pen" and "stay in the box" will keep them in there indefinitely. ###I also call them out of the kennel, doghouse or dogbox by name. ###Ideally, they are not to come out unless called by their own name or when I say "Okay" which is the all-clear for everyone.
### ### As far as training them to hunt goes, it has a whole lot to do with the natural talents, traits and genetics of the dogs. ###I like to say that my first two Walkers turned out great DESPITE me, not BECAUSE of me. ###The better the hound obviously means the less necessary training. ###A well-bred and ideally-suited individual can make training so easy that all you have to do is expose them to game. ###They often will learn the rest. ###Finding that ideal individual is the real key; they don't come along everyday. ###My first two (and best two) Walkers have been gone for seven and three years respectively and I have yet to find any hound that is even close to their performance, abilities, looks and disposition. ###It's sad to say, but I don't think I truly understood and appreciated what I had until they were gone.
### ### ### ###
### ### *Hunting hogs or bear with dogs is THE most exciting thing I know of in this world. ###I cannot imagine my life without it. ###The thrill of the chase, the sound of the excited frenzy of hounds as the anticipation of going to the tree or bay is building and the indescribable satisfaction of seeing that dog transformed over time from a clumsy and puppy into an amazing athlete is something that cannot be duplicated. ###The mechanics of it (in its most simple terms) involves something like this...
### ### ### ### ###Hounds are let out to run along the logging road, put up on the dogbox, turned out onto a suitable track or lead along ridges, hillsides or sources of water that the game is likely to inhabit. ###When the scent of the hog or bear is detected, most will bark. ###They will then follow that scent until they catch up to the animal that left it. ###The hunter is informed of this usually by the barking of the dogs. ###In most cases, the barking becomes more intense as the distance between the dogs and game (age of the "track" ) gets shorter and shorter. ###The hunter will know when the game has been stopped (bayed or treed) due to the fact that the barking is usually distinctive and stationary. ###The hunters can then go to their dogs to take the animal, pictures or video footage. ###The kill is not central to the sport and the animal is often left alive where it was caught to be run again someday. ###In fact, that is why bear hunting was opened up to deer hunters here in California...the bear hunters weren't killing the necessary amounts of bear and the quota was not being met. ###
### ### Dogs are like people; the intelligence, bravery, confidence and ability to learn from mistakes varies from dog to dog. ###Some dogs give the game a great amount of respect and berth and never come close enough to ever be hurt. ###Some require a cut, swat or bump from the game to get them to wise up and some never learn or just don't care if they get hurt. ###Hunting bear with dogs can be dangerous for the dogs, but usually is not. ###Bears often climb a tree before ever even encountering the dogs. ###Others must be forced up a tree or to a standstill. ###Hunting hogs with dogs is usually much more dangerous due to the fact that unlike bear, the hog is never treed and thus, is always in close proximity to the dogs while bayed. ###It takes much more effort on the part of the dogs to keep a hog bayed than a bear treed. ###For this reason, many hog hunters suit up their dogs with protective vests and collars that are made of material (such as Kevlar) that is resistant to the lethal tusks.
### ### ### ###
### ### *The UKC is the most widely recognized dog registry (AKC does not recognize all but one of the common hound breeds) that caters to houndsmen. ###They register thousands of hounds per year (and are beginning to recognize more and more different breeds) and hold competitive events for UKC-registered dogs. ###Many hunters (Eastern and Southern coonhunters especially) are avid supporters of the registration aspect. ###UKC registration allows for competition coonhunting where titles are awarded. ###The hunts are scored according to the positive and negative performance of the dogs and the coons are left unharmed. ###However, as with most things in life, there is a segment of fraud prevalent in the pedigrees and for this reason, some hunters (Western and big game hunters especially) do not rely as heavily on registration. ###Their situation is similiar to that which you cited. ###Two locally well-known dogs are bred with the expectation that their offspring will hold the same favorable traits. ###Many times, the offspring are not intended for sale and are immediatlely spoken for by friends, hunting buddies and local hunters familiar with the parents.

### ### So I'm betting that you weren't anticipating such a long and drawn out response, but as you can see, I am proud of my sport and honored to be part of it. ###I have hunted with hounds for all but nine of my years and I will continue to "chase them dogs" until the day I can no longer walk, see, hear or breath. ###

### ### -RIFLEMAN ### ### ### ### ###

[HoundDawg]

I will pretty much second what Rifleman said. ### ### In some respects, hounds aren't much different than Labs or any other dog. ###You'll own some good ones and some poor ones but most likely you'll have only 1 or 2 really MEMORABLE dogs in your lifetime if you are lucky. ### ###And oftentimes, we don't realize it or appreciate it until they are gone. ###

Maybe one difference is if you have an average Lab or Pointer and you are pretty much stuck with it. ###But you can own 4 or 5 average hounds... and as long as you have ONE good one, ###you can field a pack capable of catching. ###

It's my belief that in every pack, ###there is 1 dog that is doing the catching and the rest are following. ###If you have 2 doing the work, you are lucky. ### Most hound guys are 1 dog away from disaster. ### ###Meaning they may be feeding 4 or 5 dogs, ###but there is 1 dog that is separating them from catching game and coming home dejected.

I personally believe that 5% of the hounds in this world, maybe 10% ... are top dogs capable of catching anything... ### ###The other 90 or 95% are just pack dogs... average at best. ### Or as we call them "Hitchhikers"... ###

And I could be wrong about this but from my experience you seem to go through a lot more hounds to find a good one than say Labs or Pointers. ### ### Maybe because many hound guys aren't real careful in their breeding. ### ###

As for Pedigrees and Registration, ###it means absolutely nothing to me. ###But that's a personal thing because I know some guys and it's a must for them. ### ###I'm not against it and I own 1 registered walker dog and I've owned other papered dogs.

But papers don't catch game and once you drop the tailgate, the only thing those registration papers are good for is in case you forgot your toilet paper!!! ###

Waterfowling used to be my passion, ###and there are few things more beautiful to watch in this world than a good Lab leaving the blind for a fallen bird. ### ###I will always be grateful that as a boy I got to hunt next to a truly fine black lab. ### ###We bought him fully trained, and he would mark 3 dummies, retrieve all of them and he was a gorgeous dog. ### ###My dad showed that dog off to anyone and everyone and I'd like to have a nickel for every duck he retrieved while I was growing up. ### ###The day that dog left us, ###there was not one dry eye in our house. ###

Us guys probably own hounds just because we can't afford a real nice Lab or Pointer. :smile-wink:

[Rimrock]

Rifleman and Hounddawg are about right on. Once you have followed them it never gets out of your blood. It has been years since I have had a pack but sometimes when I am in the mountains and hear a hound bawl is take a lot of willpower not to get up and follow. Oh, the memories.

I hunted all breeds. One good registered Walker. The rest were crossbreeds of various breeds. Probable the best one I ever had was a part cur dog of unknown ancestry. He had a terrible mouth, but as one of my friends would say, "I don't care if he is purple and runs with a whistle mouth as long as he catches game."

Play fair

[RIFLEMAN]

HoundDawg,

### ### You couldn't be more correct when you said that finding a top notch hound is extremely hard to do. ###While I think that less intesne breeding may contributre to this, but my theory ###that this is due in part to the existence of There are so many more ingredients necessary when making the top notch hound than a top notch lab and as such, it is easy to spoil the cooking. ### ###
### ### I would also agree with you when you said that one dog can make all the difference. ###Typically, tracks are struck first by the same dog and the first dog to tree is usually the same one time and time again. ###But I don't think that the loss of one dog spells certain doom for the pack. ###Rather, I think that if the other dogs are worth their feed, once the lead dog that the rest relied upon is gone, another one will assume its role. ###At least, that has been my experience. ###
### ###
### ### I would strongly disagree with you when you said that we own hounds because we can't afford a good lab. ###My first dog was a Yellow Lab, but once I had hounds, I never went back! ###LOL ### ### ###
### ###

[awackywabbit]

Thanks guys for all the great info. ###I love dogs of all kinds, especially ones that hunt! ###Other then in movies, I've never actually seen hunting hounds, maybe one day I'll get the priveledge of watching some work. ###Thanks again for informing this Lab Lady about your Hounds!!

[WayCool]

You boys are doin' GOOD !! ###

I've raised, trained, hunted and campaigned German Shorthairs for about 15 years... I have slowed some on the field trials ###and recently with the help of folks like Dawg, Gray Fox and others not on this board started a pack of hounds for Lions and Bears...

I'm here to tell you it gets into your BLOOD ! ###I am as excited or maybe more listening to those dogs run a cold bear track as I was seeing my first GSP slam on point ! ###It is very different training, and unlike labs or pointing dogs, you really gotta have a good hound to get started.. or have lots of time to wait on them to get straight...

I could take a GSP pup.. and in a year be hunting or trialing or whatever with the dogs... IME you'd be hard pressed to do that with a hound.. at least for big game.. ###These hounds really learn alot by experience alone (so do bird dogs.. but not in the same respect). ###

I can tell you this... I'm definitely one dog away from disaster.... everytime I unleash that old dog I bought that gets things started I think about not getting her back... but then its the ONLY way, plus she LOVES IT :smile-wink:

Dawg, you load your truck up with shotgun and ammo(ok.. bring Sam, Blackjack and some younguns too.. cause maybe we'll go catch lion :smile-wink: )... come down here in January and will smoke all the ducks you can stand my friend.. my lab is not real good, but she'll go get em for us :smile-wink: ###For me calling ducks and setting them in the dekes too is a joy everyone should witness... :smile-wink:

I'm just blessed to be able to do all this... and enjoy EVERYday I get to be out with the dogs...

[NCBearhunter]

I think wabbits questions were very well answered, just thought i would throw in my 2 cents! I hunt bear with hounds in eastern north carolina and much of this area is very thick! Imagine trying to crawl though a chain link fence(smile). we use a variety of dogs from walkers to blueticks and black and tans, but put most of our time into plotts. alot of people dislike other breeds and only stick to a paticular one, but when you are strictly bear hunting its the dog that gets the job done and does it right the most that really matters. In haveing said that i would say for me and the local hunters around here that are strictly bear hunters,, we have very few if any "papered" dogs. to us its mostly about breeding two proven dogs and trying to mix one specific talent with another be it a stud with a great nose and a bitch with the mouth and stamina that we need or visa versa whatever the case may be. You very rarely come across a dog that you can honestly say has it all, usually you always say i wish it was a little better at this or i wish it had a little better nose or mouth. on ocassion we have mixed a exceptional coon dog with our bear hounds but we usually try to keep it to proven bear blood. Around here we have found that the plott hounds really get the job done the best, as far as treeing or baying and all day stamina. there are always exceptions but i guess due to the terrain and sometimes takeing hours to get to the bear and the fact we ttry to run the bigger of the bear, and they very seldom tree, the plotts have excelled in all aspects for us. (iam sure i'll hear about that statement)smile!
but as far as wabbits question to the dogs getting hurt, i have found it seems to be that its mutual respect for one another. around here most bears are not run alot, and you can tell the ones that get trained on, because they will start wounding and killing dogs. If a dog has any bear sense most of the time it knows just how close to get and when to put its tail between its legs. But you do run up on some blackies that just are not afraid of the dogs as we did last year. In a short run of about 30 minutes we had eleven dogs that were unable to continue the season, thanks to a very mean 380 pd. boar. Granted there were too many dogs on this bear he was extremely mean for around here. I have heard of people in other parts of the country that trail from dunpsters and run the same bears over and over that the bear loses all respect for the dogs and just starts killing them when they approach, dont know how true that is though, but it makes sense.anyway just thought i would throw some stuff out there and see what others thought of my opinions.

[RIFLEMAN]

Thanks for your input, NC. Glad to have another houndsman on the site!!!

Welcome.