30/06 vs 12ga

[richf]

going up to alaska in a few months with a freind of mine to do some fishing.most of the lakes are about 4-7 mile away from the cabin so camping overnight will be more practical.what do you think would be best for personal protection from bears.i am on a budget so a new gun is out of the question.i have a rem 700 in 30/06 and a rem 870 12ga.any help would be great.thanks

[bux-n-dux]

Load that 870 with some Brenneke slugs and fish, sleep and eat alot easier.

bux-n-dux

[waldo2382]

ditto. The shotgun with the plug removed with slugs piled in there. Hopefully you have a short barrel in there so that it doesn't get in the way too much.
When hiking through some thickets, having a buddy and a bang stick sure makes me feel a lot better. Be sure to have a sling if fishing the bank. Doesn't do much good leaning on a tree 20 yards away when a brownie pops out 30 yards away. You'll have fun, best precaution against bears is your brain. Proper food storage, make noise when going though places where a bear may be napping (alder patches, rolling hills, tall grasses) and do not run away from a bear if there is an encounter, make loud noises and backs slowly while getting a shell in the chamber carefully and calmly. If you do have to DLP (Defense of Life and Property) a bear, be sure to take pictures and video because there WILL be an investigation. You are also to bring the hide with claws attached and skull to a Fish and Game office within 10 days of the incident. I'm sure you'll use good judgement on when you must shoot, but for all that may be reading this that might be visiting Alaska. After one bear is killed (sure to happen on the Russian River and Kenai River) it sets off a war against the bears where a few more are shot. These bears go into the counts for tags available for the area, last year there was no season in unit 15 because of too many DLP bears. Anyway, a little bit of a rant there, but the 12 gauge with a sling and slug barrel on it. Good Luck!

[wvbowhunterinalaska]

Shotgun with slugs all they way!!!!!!

[richf]

very good info.i am an experienced outdoorsman, just not in brown bear country.i think ill look for a 20 inch barrel as well.thanks

[wmidbrook]

Odds are very, very slim that you'd have a dangerous encounter....nonetheless:

A .41 or .44 mag would be my choice.
Pistols for field protection:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/protection_field.htm

Shotguns for the field.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotguns_protection_field.htm




From Chuckhawks (not that he's the only expert around but he does have some good info):
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifles_protection_field.htm

QUOTE

The generally recognized starting point in terms of cartridge power for use on the world's dangerous predators is the .30-06 shooting a 180 grain bullet. (A 200 or 220 grain bullet is an even better option in .30-06.) For use at close range (normally 50 yards or less) we can also include the .338 Federal (200-225 grain bullets), .358 Winchester (220-250 grain bullets) and .444 Marlin (265-300 grain bullets). These and similar cartridges will be our minimum acceptable calibers. They are particularly applicable to rifles intended primarily for use against the smaller dangerous predators that average less than 350 pounds in live weight. This includes animals such as the wolf, hyena, cougar, leopard, jaguar and black bear

....Better choices for use against the largest dangerous predators such as bull alligators and crocodiles (ashore), lions and tigers, plus the grizzly, brown and polar bears are calibers that derive a lot of their killing power from bullet weight and cross-sectional area while retaining adequate sectional density. These include cartridges such as the .338-06, .338 Winchester Magnum, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, 9.3x74R, .375 Ruger, .405 Winchester, .45-70 and .450 Marlin.[/b]

I do know a couple people in AK who used .44 successfully in charging attacks but one was damned close and he had the bear literally fall at his feet. Nothing wrong with having a pistol and a rifle. I think a bolt action will be more reliable than a lever action.

[inchr48]

I vote for the shotgun also, especiallly over a handgun.

Check out these retrieved 44 mag slugs vs. a 12 ga slug.

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index....howtopic=138612

[Native Instinct]

I have no experience to help answer your question. From somewhere I remember a guide would carry a 12g and load it some order with a combination of slugs and buckshot. I think the buckshot was last.

[hatchet1]

the slugs with the buckshot as last load sounds good to me,that would definetly put the hurt on um

[richf]

im not a bad shot and my buddy is former marine with combat experience so we should be able to put 4000+ grains in the air quikly.a total last resort i must add.i would much rather shoot them with my digital.i hear that time of year they mostly feed on grasses and there prey drive and defense reaction are on a bit of a late spring break so to speak.

[Cold1nhand]

Shotgun all the way. Be safe and we look forward to the pics and story when you get back!

[scr83jp]

QUOTE (Native Instinct @ Apr 27 2008, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no experience to help answer your question. From somewhere I remember a guide would carry a 12g and load it some order with a combination of slugs and buckshot. I think the buckshot was last.[/b]

A friend of mine had his sister & bil homesteading in alaska both carried Rem 870's wherever they went when they left their home loaded this way slug,00,slug,00,slug and always carried extra shells.They said they'd encounter black bears on their way to the school bus stop every morning and afternoon.When they went berry picking,fishing or out for wood the 870's were always with them.

[alaskajim]

When it comes to knockdown energy it isn't even close, the 30-06 is much more powerful, not even close.

A 12 ga. with 'buckshot'? What are you kidding me? You might be able to change a bears mind about chomping on you, but you are going to have a hell of a time knocking him down with it. Even the very best 12 ga slug is no contest against a 30-06.

[NikolaKangrga]

I believe I would bring a pistol. .454, .460, .480, or the .500 would work great in my opinion. But if I would have to choose between a shotgun or a 30-06, I believe I would choose the shotgun. HEY! maybe get a TASER XREP!
http://www.taser.com/PRODUCTS/LAW/Pages/XREP.aspx
Just make sure you dont miss! O ya, and by the way.... I believe you have 20 sec to get the heck out of there before the bear comes too again.

[dglover]

Because you can never carry enough weapons in my opinion I would carry the .30-06 and a magnum revolver. The shotgun has too many limitations for range and power at a distance. I would rather have the capacity to take them out as far as possible if I felt threatened. In this situation though you say you don't want to buy a new gun and have only the two to choose from. Take both as you said your friend is going with you. Though it is unlikely that you will have to use either it is better to be prepared and not need it then to not have it and become bear food.

[sancho]

i think the shotgun would be easier to "point and shoot". if i was being charged by a grizz, looking thru a scope would be a last option.

man that would be a scary situation. i think i still opt for the shotgun. you taking any pepper spray? i have read that pepper spray runs them off pretty good.

[Railguner]

Shotgun!......here is my take on Grizzly with a handgun.

" This talk of using pistols for bears reminds me of when I lived in Alaska and carried a S&W Model 29 .44 magnum for bear protection. The locals laughed and me and said I needed to Alaskanize it for it to be of any value. What is that I asked?

You remove the sight and grind the hammer spur off. Then, take a file and round off every sharp piece on the gun. I was told that with this modification, after you had shot the bear six times in the head and he then took the gun away and rammed it up my azz, it would not hurt so badly.

The other tip I was given was to count the shots as I fired at the bear and remember to stop at 5. Then, just as the bear was getting to me I was to take the 6th and final shell and use it to blow my brains out. Much better than getting mauled by a brown bear. Their comment was that a brown bear is the same as the meanest 800 pound junk yard dog that could be found with five switch blade knives in each hand. "

That about sums it up. RG

[hunterdoug]

thats a good one rg...
12ga slugs all the way.. I keep a 20ga w/slugs in camp here in cali

[TagEmBagEm]

Holy smokes! All he wants is your pic a nic basket.

I would say the slug buster slug gun. Only cause the size of that slug and at close range seems to me would have more stopping power than a .30-06 when you want it to happen immediately. Also, like a camera, pointing and shooting sounds much more attractive than trying to pick up a charging bear in your scope.

[Redneck75]

Originally Posted by alaskajim

When it comes to knockdown energy it isn't even close, the 30-06 is much more powerful, not even close.

A 12 ga. with 'buckshot'? What are you kidding me? You might be able to change a bears mind about chomping on you, but you are going to have a hell of a time knocking him down with it. Even the very best 12 ga slug is no contest against a 30-06.

That would be a great point if it was true. A 30-06 does not hit anywhere near as hard at 10' as a 12 guage slug does. We're not talking about hunting...we're talking about stopping a charge. At close range, nothing is any better than a shotgun.

Many, many guides carry a 12 guage with buckshot/slugs mixed in the tube. Not uncommon at all. Several theorys as to why. I personally carried all slugs but either way is fine. A full load of 00 buck at a few feet hits awful hard...so does a slug.

[TagEmBagEm]

Yeah, the key is your trying to stop the charge, so you're looking to hit the animal as hard as you can as quickly as you can.

Obviously at 200 yards you want an .06 with its armor piercing round. But at 10' it doesn't have time to slow down and mushroom to wreak havoc, whereas a slug does.

Either way, make sure your gun has all sights filed down and all sharp corners removed, and heck, I would even put a coat of vaseline on it because if you miss, it makes a lot easier for the boar to shove it right up your.... well you know.

[scr83jp]

Originally Posted by TagEmBagEm

Holy smokes! All he wants is your pic a nic basket.

I would say the slug buster slug gun. Only cause the size of that slug and at close range seems to me would have more stopping power than a .30-06 when you want it to happen immediately. Also, like a camera, pointing and shooting sounds much more attractive than trying to pick up a charging bear in your scope.

I did some checking about loads for the 30-06 learning bullets as heavy as 250 + grains have been loaded for use in the 30-06 in griz country,in Alaska the 30-06 rifle is still carried by many hunters and the 30-06 has taken every species of game on the North American Continent.For Big Game Hunting in Idaho(Bison bison weighing 2000 + lbs) I've loaded 220gr Nosler Partitions for my 30-06 & 300win mag rifles.One can load 300gr Nosler Partitions for use in 45-70 Marlin Lever Action Rifles. One can practise shooting centerfire rifles from the hip prior to a trip into areas with large species like bear,bison,moose ,etc.

[gtimo98]

Guides up there carry a shotgun with slugs, that's what I'd carry.

[TagEmBagEm]

Originally Posted by scr83jp

I did some checking about loads for the 30-06 learning bullets as heavy as 250 + grains have been loaded for use in the 30-06 in griz country,in Alaska the 30-06 rifle is still carried by many hunters and the 30-06 has taken every species of game on the North American Continent.For Big Game Hunting in Idaho(Bison bison weighing 2000 + lbs) I've loaded 220gr Nosler Partitions for my 30-06 & 300win mag rifles.One can load 300gr Nosler Partitions for use in 45-70 Marlin Lever Action Rifles. One can practise shooting centerfire rifles from the hip prior to a trip into areas with large species like bear,bison,moose ,etc.

Right, there's no question you can kill a bear with a .30-06. Shoot you can kill a bear with a .22-250. But for my money, and when the rubber meets the road, I would much rather lob some big fat bone jarring slugs at him. I want to take a cannon to gun fight, not a knife.

[larrysogla]

12 gauge Magnum shotgun all the way for close quarters stopping power....NOW!!!!!! The 30-'06 will definitely kill the biggest Kodiak/brown/Grizzly bear.............but you need to stop the charge instantly to avoid being bitten, clawed, mauled, crippled, killed by an angry Grizz. The 12 gauge Magnum slug definitely has more stopping power than a medium bore hi-power rifle cartridge. If it was a .458 Winchester Magnum rifle or bigger bore rifle like a 500 or 600 Nitro Express..............then it is a different story. Those African big bore calibers are in a class of stopping power all by themselves.
'Nuff said
larrysogla