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Old 11-21-2008, 09:15 AM
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Skyler
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Or at least to get the season reviewed with some new biological data that actually pertains to the current population. At this point, the commision is basically telling us that these guys are more valuable for ambiance and scenery than they are as a game animal, all based on what some antis said like 15-20 years ago. I think it's time to review the regs and get some actual numbers, then decide whether to open or close the season on socal national forests. If people whining got the season closed, then it stands to reason that us whining is the only way to get it re-opened.

The main reason I want to do this is for my daughter. Without squirrel hunting, our kids do not have the traditional launch into hunting that most youngsters get in other parts of the state. Hard to start a kid out hunting in heavy brush for cottontails, you know? They will get disallusioned with the whole deal quite quickly if they are unable to bag anything, and our DFG and wildlife managment agencies are the ones that lose out from the reduced number of license fees. A reduced bag limit or season length would be a good alternative to a fully closed season if need be, and is quite a reasonable compromise if you ask me. Or even just opening the area to juniors only. Either way, there are many better alternatives to closing the area altogether.

Socal accounts for most of the state's population, so closing off the season is definitely a factor in the constantly dwindling number of hunters in California. Like I said, squirrel hunting is a part of our American heritage, and an important link in the chain for developing new hunters. Closing it only hurts our sport, our state's revenues, and leaves numerous squirrels running rampant, chewing up wiring and vinyl siding, causing fires, spreading disease, and causing accidents on our highways.

So like I said, I'd like to get a petition started to send to the Fish and Game Commision. I'll even stand outside bass pro gathering signatures for a month if I have to. I just need someone who is a bit more law-savvy than myself to help with the wording. Any help would be appreciated. If we pull together we can get this thing done. Thanks guys.

-Skyler
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:02 PM
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A footnote: Even if the population is too low for an open season, where does this official DFG statement come in? I have not seen any DFG efforts to rebuild local squirrel habitat:

"The Department is entrusted by the State to protect, maintain, and RESTORE fish, wildlife, native plants, and the habitats they depend upon. Data obtained and analyzed from inventories and monitoring is crucial to fulfilling statutory mandates for species conservation, management, and restoration; habitat conservation and planning; and environmental review."

As of yet, I've not found any information regarding ANY recent biological surveys of grey squirrel in southern California mountain ranges. This should be public information, no? If someone has a link or some paperwork, I'd greatly appreciate it. Even the F&G Commision's policies leave little recourse for small game surveys. This what they care about i guess:

WILDLIFE:
Deer Management
Depredation Control
Elk
Raptors
Upland Game
Wild Pigs

It appears that no new info on resident small game populations is even sought after anymore, yet they still maintain the closure on tree squirrel hunting in Socal. This fact is obvious in some of the more overrun mountain/coastal communities. This is basically the hunting equivalant of taxation without representation! Completely unfair. If you are going to stop us from hunting squirrels, at least tell us why!

If this bothers anybody else as much as me, please speak up. Do we need to send in thousands of photos of grey squirrels frolicking and chewing power lines to get an actual biologist out here for a survey? I thought that was their job? Personally, every time I fish or hunt a drainage in the local mountains, I see at least a double limit of gray squirrels. There are so many that the males actually fight for creekside territory (quite a loud and manic affair, lol)! That is usuallly a sign that the population is healthy. I have even seen them in Redlands and Yucaipa lately. I understand funding is an issue, but like I said, this review stands to increase local revenues, and will have almost no affect other than unraided bird feeders and unchewed wiring. A wise investment by any standard. Seriously, we need to get this closure reviewed. I am willing to go all the way with this, even if I have to go to sacremento, but I'll need others on my side as well. You can email me at pspairguns@hotmail.com. Thanks, guys.

-Skyler
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:33 PM
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Though I could not find anything from the DFG or FGC, it appears that the USFW Service made an interesting finding in late 2004:

http://www.fws.gov/policy/library/04-21800.html

Here are some of the more pertainant points:

"SUMMARY: We, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service), announce a
90-day finding for a petition to list the western gray squirrel
(Sciurus griseus) as endangered under the Endangered Species Act of
1973, as amended. We find the petition does not present substantial
scientific or commercial information indicating that listing this
species may be warranted.

DATES: The finding announced in this document was made on September 29,
2004."

"CDFG concludes that hunting mortality does not
adversely affect western gray squirrel populations (CDFG 2002). Hunting
for tree squirrels is permitted within the range of Sciurus griseus
griseus and S. g. nigripes, but is not permitted in southern California
within most of the range of S. g. anthonyi. There are no data showing
populations of the western gray squirrel having declined such that the
subspecies may be threatened or endangered in California. The National
Heritage Status Rank for the western gray squirrel in California is S4
(Apparently Secure) and S5 (Secure) (NatureServe Explorer 2002)."

"We reviewed the best available information on the status of the
western gray squirrel THROUGHOUT its range, including information in
the petition and from other sources. We do not find there is a threat
that constitutes an emergency posing significant risk to the well-being
of the western gray squirrel across all or a significant portion of the
species' range as discussed above. Western gray squirrel populations
are apparently secure in California and Nevada."

It appears that the failure of that particular petition opens the field for ours. USFWS has already done half the footwork.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:42 PM
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scr83jp is an unknown quantity at this point
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyler View Post
Though I could not find anything from the DFG or FGC, it appears that the USFW Service made an interesting finding in late 2004:

2004 Federal Register, 69 FR 58115; Centralized Library: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - FR Doc 04-21800

Here are some of the more pertainant points:

"SUMMARY: We, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service), announce a
90-day finding for a petition to list the western gray squirrel
(Sciurus griseus) as endangered under the Endangered Species Act of
1973, as amended. We find the petition does not present substantial
scientific or commercial information indicating that listing this
species may be warranted.

DATES: The finding announced in this document was made on September 29,
2004."

"CDFG concludes that hunting mortality does not
adversely affect western gray squirrel populations (CDFG 2002). Hunting
for tree squirrels is permitted within the range of Sciurus griseus
griseus and S. g. nigripes, but is not permitted in southern California
within most of the range of S. g. anthonyi. There are no data showing
populations of the western gray squirrel having declined such that the
subspecies may be threatened or endangered in California. The National
Heritage Status Rank for the western gray squirrel in California is S4
(Apparently Secure) and S5 (Secure) (NatureServe Explorer 2002)."

"We reviewed the best available information on the status of the
western gray squirrel THROUGHOUT its range, including information in
the petition and from other sources. We do not find there is a threat
that constitutes an emergency posing significant risk to the well-being
of the western gray squirrel across all or a significant portion of the
species' range as discussed above. Western gray squirrel populations
are apparently secure in California and Nevada."

It appears that the failure of that particular petition opens the field for ours. USFWS has already done half the footwork.
We moved to Yucaipa in 1970 & never observed a Sciurus- gray squirrel until last year when one was running across the street near my home,always saw lots in Redlands,CA and an occasional gray squirrel in the upper reaches of Yucaipa,CA
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:43 PM
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scr83jp is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Sciuridae in S .Calif

At one time San Bernardino County had their own conservation officer working for the Bd of Supervisors helping set seasons.Don't know if that position still exists.I did meet him when I was a deputy probation officer and we discussed his job my interest was the degree I have as a wildlife mgt biologist.
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