PDA

View Full Version : Remington M721 thru M700 safety issue



spectr17
07-28-2001, 03:34 PM
This safety issue with Remington centerfire rifles accidentally discharging is just now being made public. If you own one of these rifles please read about the problem and consider a new trigger to prevent the accidental discharge that has hurt and killed many people already.

From Jack Belk, gunsmith,

All Remington bolt action CF triggers from 1950 beginning with the Model 721 and 722 up through currently produced Model 700s and all the ones except the model 788 that have been made in the last 50 years (M600/660/600Mohawk/M7 etc) have the Walker System trigger which uses a "Flexibly mounted connector" that has been proven many many times to allow the rifles to fire without the trigger being pulled.

There are many deaths and serious injuries that have resulted. ###It makes no difference if the trigger has been adjusted, altered, or maintained. ###The fault is in the basic DESIGN. ###It has to be replaced to fix the problem. ###Any trigger that DOES NOT have the connector is much more safe than the Walker trigger. Timney, Shilen Jewel).

This information, while common knowledge to those that analyze customer complaints, has not been released to the public or Remington's own repair stations until now.

I first identified the problem in 1969 when a good friends father in law shot himself in the knee with a 722. ###Its very easy to see and understand if you first know exactly how the trigger is designed to operate.

Sending a gun back to Remington results in another trigger just like the one you had.

=====================================

Here is Remington's safety bulletin about it http://www.remington.com/safety/reminder.htm

CBS 60 Minutes did an expose' on this problem and here is the

http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,269769-412,00.shtml

QEU
08-17-2001, 11:53 AM
Though it has never discharged accidently on me, I want to get rid of mine after reading the articles. I was in the wood with a Remington M700 yesterday with my brother. Reselling it will only transfer the problem to next person. What should owners do? Thanks for the info Spectr17.

spectr17
08-18-2001, 08:59 PM
QEU, I would simply replace the trigger for $30.00. Problem solved.

huntducks
08-27-2001, 12:26 PM
I feel like a a$$ for doing it, but last year haste overruled common sense, I put a loaded round into a 600 while reloading making sure bolt would close well it went off and I now have a groove in the side of my gun safe and a hole in my loading room wall, I COULD HAVE BEEN ALOT WORST, like thru my neighbors house, I have several Rem. 1-700, 4-600 1-md 7 they will stay in the safe for now.

kc
08-31-2001, 10:51 AM
Jesse, Who has a $30 trigger for a M700 & what brand? The lowest price I saw on MidwayUSA is $62 for a Timney.

spectr17
09-03-2001, 11:28 PM
My error KC, it's been awhile since I've replaced a trigger. Thanks for the info on the price.

RanchRoper
10-08-2001, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the info I was looking at buying a used one I found. I don't think I will be making that purchase.

bubba
10-10-2001, 08:51 AM
Is Remington still producing rifles with these triggers? I was thinking about getting a Remington Titanium, but now I'm having second thoughts. I know replaciong the trigger would fix the problem, the the fact that Remington is not addressing the issue is totally irresponsible and I will not buy a Remingotn until they step up and fix it themselves.

Mel Carter
10-11-2001, 01:58 AM
I bought a Remington 700 for my son last year for Xmas. After reading this post I called Remington to see what was up. The costomer services rep. that I talked to said the have had no reports of any issues regarding the guns going off accidentaly. They did say they had a case of a lady who accidentaly shot her son, the lady said the rifle just went off. Remington said they inspected this rifle and found the trigger to ge dirty and not oiled, this was what made it fire, not a faulty trigger. DO YOU BUY WHAT THEY SAY?

Mel

jbelk
10-14-2001, 09:37 AM
mel--

There have been at LEAST 1500 WRITTEN complaints and at LEAST 50 law suits. The pitiful part is how many lives and permanent injuries that represents....all avoidable.

There are company documents recently made public and available that say exactly what the problem is and how it could be fixed dating back more than 50 years.

I'd like to know who you talked to. It might be interesting to call him back and ask for his statement in writing.

Augustis
10-14-2001, 11:24 AM
Mel

I have stayed out of this until now but have been watching the posts here for some time now.

What has caught my attention this time was that *you* after reading this thread had enough concern about this condition and for the safety of your family to contact Remington Arms Service Dept. ( I Assume) to ask questions concerning your sons Model 700 rifle and this potential malfunction problem and they apparently did not share in your concern for the safety and well being of you as well as of your family members to tell you the truth, they are aware of other complaints involving allagations involving *Inadvertent Discharges* of M/700 rifles to what extent this info is shared with the employees at Remington I cannot say for sure.

I sent you some info lastnight via email to allow you to see the other side of the coin to allow you to make some *Educated* decissions concerning this issue.

You can take the info to the bank, or squander it for what it is worth to you the choice is yours now,*but* at leased you wont have to wait for your *Hindsight* to be 20/20 if in the event your sons M/700 does ever accidently discharge.

What counts here is, Potentially, How does it make *you* feel to know that someone is playing games (Stastictally) with your life as well as those of your family members? I would like to know the answer to that question?

MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS: NO, I DONT BELEIVE THE ANSWER GIVEN YOU. BUT THEN AGAIN, I CAN DOCUMENT IT.

Augustis

MQ
10-14-2001, 10:37 PM
I have been in the vicinity of 2 accidental discharges by Model 700s. Both times the people with the guns claimed that their fingers were not on the trigger, but both claimed they were checking their safety. These incidents were several years apart and now I know the reason. I am supposed to go deer hunting with both these guys in a couple weeks. I better let them know ASAP. Thanks for the info.....

Mel Carter
10-16-2001, 02:28 AM
There's nothing I hate more than being lied to, and especially from a firearms manufacturer with a reputation like Remington. I'm going to write a letter to Remington stating my concerns and the discussion i had with someone at thier facility. I plan on spreading the word to everyone I know who owns a Remington or is thinking of purchasing one, DON'T! With all of the gun laws that are coming out, the last thing we need is a manufacturer who won't stand behind thier products when they are under the gun regarding complaints, especially when those complaints are regarding safety. This has totally got me ticked off. I know writing this letter won't do sqwat, but i'm curious if someone will respond. I'll let everyone know what happens.

To Augustis, Thank you for the information!!

Mel

Hntrjohn
10-18-2001, 10:09 AM
To my knowlege all these "accidents" happened while these people took their gun "off safety". People need to rember were there gun is pointed. I know one of there happened when a mother was unloading her gun. At the other end was her son. I would hate to loose my son because of it.

Point the gun were it is safe dammit.

John

jbelk
10-18-2001, 11:30 AM
Hey John,

Would you please tell us what a "safe" direction is for a gun that can go off anytime its loaded?

Fire on Safety Release (FSR) is only ONE problem with this mechanizm.

Don't fall for the idea its a shooters fault because he didnt know a gun was made with an unsafe design and/or parts. The manufacturer has responsibilities too.

Augustis
10-18-2001, 08:19 PM
hntrjohn

Does a manufacture of *any* product that could be Potentially dangerous due to possible defect/inherent design problems unbenounced to the user have a *moral* obligation to correct the condition or warn the users of that product for the potential to injure or kill once they identify the condition/problem????

Would you like to know?

If you dont think so could you tell us why, please?

Augustis

bohunter7
10-27-2001, 10:27 PM
Well I was just getting ready to buy a new rifle in Nov. Problem was, I couldnt decide between a Remington 700, or a Winchester M-70. Thanks to the info I've read here, the decision is easy, Im going with the Winchester. I know the Rem 700 has an easy fix, but if the company has been hiding this problem for so many years, what other safety problems might they be hiding!

Augustis
10-30-2001, 10:17 AM
I changed my mind about the post but I sincerely hope and pray everybody has a productive and safe hunting season this year!

Hntrjohn
11-03-2001, 06:45 AM
Maybe I hunt a little different than some of you. ###I hunt big game with an empty chamber in my rifle. When I pheasant hunt with my over and under I carry it broke open. When I hunt with my pump it does have one in the chamber, but I keep the gun pointed up at all times.

John

doghouse95
11-07-2001, 08:24 PM
I've read the data, and the posts in here, but I have to say that I have shot and worked on hundreds of Mdl 700's and never seen anything like all of this is talking about.

It makes me wonder if people are ajusting the triggers and they don't know what they are doing.

I'm not interested in putting anyone down, and I do believe there is a problem, I'm just not sure of its origin.

jbelk
11-07-2001, 11:29 PM
doghouse--

Drop me an email at jbelk@magiclink.com. I'll send you the technical description of the fault.

Without careful study of the patent it's hard to understand since some actions have to happen in real time in order to happen at all.......and they are hidden inside the housing so cant be seen.

If you've worked on them I can explain it to you. It's easy to see once the cycle of operation is worked out.

Torch
11-09-2001, 01:06 PM
I read with interest on the safety issues concerning Remington rifles.I have a bdl 700ss dm with a Shilen barrel,Ti firing pin and a trigger job.My father has had one for 20 yrs or so and I know a bunch of people who own one that have had no problems what so ever.But I did ask my smith about it and he said he's worked on a bunch of them.He said the main problem is people using WD40 inside the trigger which in time builds a shelac type coating on the sear which will cause accidental discharges because the sear/safety is no longer functioning properly.WD40 is great as a water displacer(WD) not a lubricant.You must keep a clean trigger,use no WD40,use TRIFLO or something along that line(I'm not a TRIFLO dealer).Hope this helps..

coyotehunter 1
11-15-2001, 07:59 PM
Thanks all for the heads up! ###I have one early model 700 that did A/D, scared the crap out of me. I bought this rifle used, the trigger had been "worked on" before I got it. My gunsmith tore it down, installed new springs and readjusted it. The trigger still was not right, the rifle now has a Timney installed. That took care of the A/Ds. My gunsmith recommends using lighter fluid to clean a trigger group, he stated "most problems with triggers can be traced to bad sear adjustments, worn / filed down parts or gunked up oil". ###He has seen quite a few###Remington triggers that would A/D when the safety was pushed off. One thing he did that I like, was shorten the bolt stop on my actions, now I can unload without going off safe. I've got two more 700s, one still has the factory trigger installed. I've had no problems what so ever with it... yet.

ch 1 ###

Rimrock
11-25-2001, 11:16 PM
I once had a Model 700 the discharged when I closed the bolt on a live round. Wish I knew where it was now so I could warn the owner.

I still have a Model 721. Am I reading this right that there may be a problem with this also?

Augustis
12-14-2001, 05:06 PM
I thought I would add this to this thread, more on the condition of FSR, Tacoma Police Dept. sniper rifles!

Interesting thread, let me know if you think Remington is represented on this thread?

Augustis

http://www.huntamerica.com/ultimatebb/ulti...=8&t=002251 (http://www.huntamerica.com/ultimatebb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=002251)

wmidbrook
12-19-2001, 09:31 AM
Remington has been sued for this. I am familiar with one case since I worked for a fellow who sued Reminton and won (I think he's in the minority).

Lowenburg v. Remington

Louie owns several crabbing boats on Kodiak, AK. ###I worked on the Francis Lee--a crab boat. Louie was in South Africa on a hunt. The barrel was pointed towards his foot and went off while they were viewing wildlife. Fortunately, his boot held his foot together but his foot is still partially crippled....

thanks to his financial depth, he was able to hire top-notched lawyers and won the law suite. He used the money to buy a hunting lodge in S. Africa back in the mid-80s.

True story. Replace your triggers.

jhr
01-04-2002, 03:35 PM
OK. I'm basically convinced that I should replace the trigger on my .30-06, 700 BDL. ###Does anyone know of a good two stage trigger that is designed for the 700BDL? (I do a lot of bench shooting).

jbelk
01-04-2002, 03:50 PM
jhr--

I'm not sure why you would want a two stage trigger for bench shooting.

Do you mean 2 lever, maybe? Jewell, Hart, Shilen, Canjar, Remington, Kenyon, Williams, Saunders, Burns, and some I've probably forgotten all make 2 and 3 lever triggers for the 700.

These are (or should be) BR only. Or at least only used when the muzzle is stationary. There is no safety and about a pound is as *heavy* as they'll go.

Gilles
01-29-2002, 10:03 AM
I just bought a new m700 bdl for christmas and I was not aware of this issue at the time of the purchase. Is there a way I can make remington pay for the new trigger or should I return the rifle and get my money back since it is still in the box. I hear they are good rifles but I don't want to risk my life or anybody thats around me. I would really like to keep the rifle if there is a safe and sure way to fix the problem.

Augustis
01-29-2002, 07:25 PM
Gilles

You've got mail.

Augustis

dquilio
02-28-2002, 08:50 AM
Just wanted to address the notion that the Remington triggers only malfunction if they are dirty, have been adjusted, had WD40 used on them or any other myths:

In August, 2001 the Tacoma, WA PD SWAT team sent our 6 M700 rifles to Remington to ensure our trigger mechanisms were within factory spec since the rifles were about 10 years old.

After receving the rifles back with assurances everything had been adjusted to factory spec, we had a malfunction in November where the rifle fired when moving the safety from "safe" to "fire". A little testing showed that 2 more of the rifles would do the same thing.

Remington claims to be at a loss to explain the problem, so we are in the process of purchasing 6 new SIG SSG3000 rifles.

Hook
02-28-2002, 09:51 AM
dquilio & jhr, Welcome to Jesses. Glad to have you guys on board.

There are quite a few law enforcement people on this board and you'll find some of the most friendly and down to earth people here too.

woodseye
03-02-2002, 05:28 AM
Following this thing just boggles my mind. I don't dislike Remington,but I REALLY dislike anyone who puts profit over safety and life. They've known about this longer than most of the members on this forum have been alive! Its only now starting to get to big to hide and lie about and contain. I hope this hurts them now that they are in a struggle with Winchester over introduction of the new short magnum lines. Every gun sale it costs them they can thank their unscruplous business practices. Nuf said.There is no safe way to handle a gun with a faulty safety!
woods

woodseye
03-04-2002, 11:58 AM
By the way,why do none of the links in above posts work but the Remington one???? Can't find any thing to read.

woods

JBarn3
03-06-2002, 06:09 PM
Just read on CBS news that remington is taking action and will repair the defective guns. But then I read the remington website, and the program is pretty BS. They will remove the bolt lock on pre-82 rifles, so the rifle can be unloaded with the safety on. They charge $20 +s&h. and send the gun back with a coupon for $20 off remington brand safety products. It's better than nothing, but I still don't like the program.

Brian S
03-07-2002, 08:41 AM
Dan rather revisited the story last night on 60 minutes. Did they change the safety/trigger set up after 82' or what.

Brian

Hook
03-07-2002, 11:49 AM
Brian,

Remington did change the safety around that time frame. They changed the design of the safety so that you could open the bolt with the safety in the ON position. Prior to 82 or their abouts you had to take the safety OFF to open the bolt.

I believe the most of the safety/misfire issues are on the older models where you have to take it OFF safe to open the bolt.

dquilio
03-07-2002, 11:56 AM
Remington claims that the problem exists in only the older guns, but the rifles the Tacoma PD SWAT team was suing were all manufactured in '89 & '90. The problem is in the basic design of the mechanism.

Augustis
03-07-2002, 01:30 PM
Links related to this issue.

Augustis

http://newspapers.mywebpal.com/partners/31...news265235.html (http://newspapers.mywebpal.com/partners/311/public/news265235.html)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/06/...ain503164.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/06/eveningnews/main503164.shtml)

http://www.remington.com/Safety_Modificati...ton_safety.html (http://www.remington.com/Safety_Modification_Program/remington_safety.html)

spectr17
03-07-2002, 07:34 PM
I'd like to thank Augustis, Jack Belk and a few others whos names escape me right now who have sent me info and posted links about the Remington trigger problem. This problem should have been corrected many many years ago as the documents show and it was only the determination of the people previously mentioned that it not happen again that brought Remington to their senses.

Thank you all.

Bullseye
03-23-2002, 08:32 PM
WOW while reading this it reminded me of a incadent I had while hunting several years ago. my gun went off, luckly in a safe driection no one got hert but it realy shook me up. I still think about it every time I get ready for the season. I heard something and while taking my safty off it went off. It was my buddy coming down the hill. I allways felt I didn't touch the trigger but figured I must have becuase it fired. now I just checked and sure enough you have to take the safty off to open the bolt.

this is just one more reason ###the info on this B/B is so valuble THANKS!!!!!

Augustis
05-02-2002, 06:39 AM
I thought I would update this thread with a couple new links, the threads contain some historical info as well as tech.

Jesse, I hope you dont mind? If its a problem let me know and I will delete the post.

Augustis

http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthreads/show...o=0&fpart=1 (http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB8&Number=188306&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1)

JDC
05-21-2002, 08:30 AM
Here is an EXTREMELY interesting article. Well worth the read time.

http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa010208b.htm

kc
07-15-2002, 12:22 PM
I just dropped my model 700 off for the factory modification of the safety. ###I also asked the gunsmith about the cost of replacing the trigger with an aftermarket one. He told me that I didn't need to replace the trigger since nothing was wrong with it. ###He said the problems were caused by dirty triggers, wd-40 or improper adjustment. ###I have to assume he believes it because he worked hard to convince me I didn't need to pay him to replace the trigger.

In addition to the safety modification, they also completely clean and properly oil the trigger. ###It is also part of his contract with Remington that if the trigger has been modified and no longer meets factory specs, he MUST replace the trigger with a new one set to factory specs, even if there is nothing wrong with the trigger. ###Mine has the factory trigger, so I didn't ask if that also applied to an aftermarket trigger. ###Plus, while the rifle is in his shop for the safety modification, he can not adjust the trigger to lessen the weight. ###If you want the trigger worked on too, you have to bring the rifle back later.

My rifle should be ready in about 6 weeks. ###When I get it back, it will have a Timney trigger. ###In case you are wondering, the new trigger is $85 and the labor for installation, adjustment and testing will be about $43, both before tax.

DaveP
09-07-2002, 10:30 AM
I'm wondering if 700P rifles are also part of this problem. Does anyone know if this model has a trigger problem? I may buy this model v. shortly.

Thanks.
Dave.

HKE
09-18-2002, 06:54 PM
I read on the link provided by Gun Doc and Augustis that the model 700 triggers that are in question were only manufactured between july 1987 and december 1987. Now did they change the design since, or are new manufactured rifles prone to the same problem? Also, say I just bought a brand new Model 700, shouldn't their be some sort of disclaimer saying the rifle could be prone to misfiring? I'm confused, please someone enlighten me.

thanks,Keith

Augustis
10-03-2002, 06:05 PM
HKE

Sorry for the delay in answering your question (I thought someone else would) concerning the Walker Fire Control....

These two issues are unrelated and this "Safety Modification Program" effects rifles of manufacturer from 1948 to Feb.26,1982 encompassing several different models that utilized a feature known as a "bolt lock" which essentially required the handler of the arm to put the safety in the *On Fire* position without any means to block the striker in the event of a malfunction of the trigger body/trigger connector to return to the sear support position which would/could result in a safety induced unintentional discharge of a chambered round upon release of the safety to the fire position, if any of this makes any sense to you......

Here is a link to Remington concerning the program

http://www.remington.com/Safety_Modificati...gton_safety.htm (http://www.remington.com/Safety_Modification_Program/remington_safety.htm)

I hope this answers you questions or concerns.

Sincerely, Augustis ><>

DaMatRat
10-16-2002, 10:50 PM
Hey Guys,

FYI: I read this same Remington Safety Notice in one of the magazines awhile back so I called Remington gave them the serial number off my Model 700 7MM, ans sure enough my rifle was one of &#39;these&#39; guns.
Remington gave me the number of an authorized service center in my area (Baines & Davis in San Gabriel), I brought my rifle dropped it off, they fixed/replaced whatever parts were need as part of the saftey notice and I had my rifle back in a few days ~ all for free.

Raully
02-14-2003, 11:39 AM
I got a model 721 in a 270 that I have had for years with no problems. It has a 3.5 lb trigger so I guess its been worked on before. My dad bought it used and gave it to me when I was about 15 yrs old. What should I do return it to remington or just by another aftermarket trigger and have my gun shop install it. It is definitley and older rifle but I don&#39;t know how old.

Mawolf
08-15-2003, 10:45 AM
Please help...I didn&#39;t have time to read all the posts reguarding this matter but I KNOW FOR A FACT THERE IS A PROBLEM. I am looking for any and all information reguarding this matter as my father is in the process of losing his leg due to this very subject...as you might have guessed he is in the middle of a lawsuit concerning this and anything that anyone can tell me or direct me to, to support him would be greatly appericated. You can e-mail me with links and info at mawolf01@hotmail.com. Thank you for all your help. Be Safe and remember it can happen to anyone my Dad is the living proof. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smiley-idea-blu.gif

gatercat37
10-22-2003, 05:37 AM
does this include the model 7

Augustis
11-04-2003, 11:37 AM
This thread had not been updated in awhile so I thought I would post this....

Augustis ><>

http://clickit.go2net.com/search?pos=10&si...?TOPIC_ID=76681 (http://clickit.go2net.com/search?pos=10&site=srch&cid=239170&area=srch.noncomm.inktomi&shape=textlink&cp=info.dogpl&cluster-click=0&pd=0&coll=0&query=remington+firearm+recalls&rawto=http://forums.forthehunt.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76681)

Augustis
11-04-2003, 11:44 AM
http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index....showtopic=16111 (http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16111)

Augustis
02-07-2004, 06:40 PM
To adjust or not and why,"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lessons afterward."

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index....showtopic=52082 (http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52082)

Augustis ><>

Augustis
04-24-2004, 07:53 AM
Preventable defect hurts, maims more than 100

By Melvin Claxton / The Detroit News


Lloyd Woods is a Vietnam veteran and longtime hunter who has spent much of
his life handling and using guns.

But when he bought a used Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle in 1988, he
had no way of knowing that the sleek, carefully finished exterior hid a
dangerous design flaw — a defect that has injured more than a hundred people.

The series of small, metal parts that control the gun’s firing mechanism were
prone to failure, making the rifle accidentally discharge without the trigger
being pulled.

Remington Arms Co. officials knew of this problem in some rifles as early as
1947, but for decades failed to fix the firing mechanism or warn customers of
the danger.

The problem, the company’s own records show, could have been fixed for 32
cents a rifle.

On Nov. 12, 1996, the 56-year-old Woods killed a deer near his Kentucky home
during an afternoon hunt. He got down from his tree stand and began unloading
the rifle in preparation for putting it away in a gun holder in the back of
his pickup truck.

The Remington 700’s design required that the gun’s safety, a device that
keeps the rifle from firing, be turned off in order to unlock the bolt and remove
the bullets. But Woods said when he moved the safety to off, the gun fired
without the trigger being pulled.

The bullet, fired with enough force to kill a deer more than 1,000 feet away,
tore through the muscle and shattered the bones of Wood’s right leg. Doctors
fought to save the leg, but days later amputated it just below the knee.

It was far from an isolated incident. Since the 1970s, more than a hundred
people — mainly hunters — have been injured, maimed or killed when their
Remington rifles accidentally fired without the trigger being pulled.

Missouri attorney Richard Miller, who estimates he has handled about 100
cases against Remington, said the firearm manufacturer’s own records show it has
received more than 1,500 complaints of unintentional discharges involving the
700 rifle.


Remington recall

Many Remington rifles made before 1982 require the user to turn the manual
safety off before opening the bolt to unload the weapon. But turning the saftety
off has caused hundreds of these guns to discharge without the trigger being
pulled. The company is recalling the rifles.


Accidental firing
In order to open the bolt to unload the rifle, the shooter must disengage the
safety. If parts are worn or out of adjustment, it is possible for the
trigger mechanism to engage.
If the shooter pulls the trigger or moves the bolt handle while the safety is
on, the mechanism may become preloaded. As the safety or bolt handle is moved
slightly, the gun may accidently go off.
Remington recalls
700, 721, 722, 40X and 600 series reifles made before 1982, because of a
potential for the guns to accidentally fire.

Remington rejects taking action on injury reports

Seventeen years before Woods was injured, Remington officials debated
recalling the rifle after reports of accidental shootings and injuries.

The company, owned at the time by chemical giant DuPont, decided against the
recall because officials estimated only 20,000 of the rifles were prone to
fire without the trigger being pulled when the safety was pushed to off.

"That would mean the recall would have to gather 2 million guns just to find
20,000 that are susceptible to this condition," the company’s subcommittee on
safety explained in a Jan. 2, 1979, report on why it didn’t recommend
recalling the rifle.

The committee gave another reason for its decision: "An attempt to recall all
bolt action rifles would undercut the message we plan to communicate to the
public concerning proper gun handling. It would indicate that the answer to
accidental discharge can be found entirely within the gun, when in reality only
proper gun handling can eliminate injuries resulting from such occurrences."

The safety committee insisted the problem wasn’t confined to Remington
rifles, but that a "large percentage" of its competitors made rifles with a similar
problem.

Instead of a recall, the committee recommended "an informational warning
concerning accidental firing and safe gun handling be prepared and effectively
communicated to the gun handling public."

The recommendations were approved by the company’s president, Remington
records show.

Because no federal agency has the power to recall defective guns or even
investigate complaints of malfunctions, Remington’s decision went unchallenged.

Attorney Miller said the gun maker not only ignored the problem, but also
seriously understated it.

"Every Remington 700 has the potential to accidentally discharge," Miller
said. "The problem is that the trigger connect is unreliable. It is the same
mechanism in 100 percent of the rifles."

Remington, under new ownership since it was sold by DuPont for $300 million
in 1993, insists that modifications in the 1982 rifles — which allow them to be
unloaded with the safety on — have ended the problem. And they say an ongoing
recall of pre-1982 rifles, initiated last year, is addressing the problem
with older rifles.

Miller praised Remington’s new owners for addressing a problem they
inherited. He said the ability to unload the weapon while the safety is on
significantly lessens the chance of an accidental discharge.

Firing mechanism issue first surfaced in 1947

Problems with the firing mechanism in Remington guns first surfaced in the
company’s model 721 rifles, a precursor of the 700.

On April 9, 1947, Remington test engineer Wayne Leek warned company officials
of a malfunction in the 721 rifles that was "very dangerous from safety and
functional point of view."

Among the problems Leek cited in a memo was the possibility of firing the gun
"by pushing the safety to the ‘off’ position."

A Remington product safety subcommittee memo from 1956 acknowledged the
ongoing problem: "A major stumbling block has developed in the safety design, which
is considered inadequate in the Models 721 and 722."

But Remington issued no warnings and continued manufacturing rifles with the
same firing assembly.

In 1962, the gun maker introduced two new rifles, the Mohawk 600 and the
Remington 700. The firing mechanism in both guns, while slightly modified, was
essentially the same as earlier Remington rifles, experts say.

Soon, old problems resurfaced.

A 1975 Remington internal quality audit found that at least half of the
200,000 Mohawks could potentially fire when the safety was moved to the off
position.

But Remington’s product safety subcommittee met several times on the matter
and concluded "the situation did not present a safety problem," company records
show.

Meanwhile, people were getting hurt.

John Coates, an attorney, was one of them. Coates was shot in his Jeep on the
way back from a hunting trip with his son and a friend, a local judge.

His son, sitting in the back seat, turned the safety off to unload the rifle
when it fired, hitting Coates. He was left paralyzed and Remington settled the
case for $6.3 million in 1977, although some company officials insisted human
error, not the gun, was to blame.

The media attention generated by the case forced the company to do something
it had tried very hard to avoid. Remington recalled the Mohawk 600 months
after settling with Coates.

"Once the allegations of the case became public and the settlement given
publicity, Remington had no other choice, regardless of our belief as to (the)
cause of the Coates accident, but to recall the Mohawk 600," Remington associate
counsel R.B. Sperling stated in a 1978 memo to a DuPont financial department
executive.

Remington made no improvements to the 700 rifle, despite complaints similar
to those about the Mohawk 600.

On June 23, 1981, a Remington field service specialist, Fred Martin, wrote to
his boss pointing out that for 32 cents a gun, the company could fix the
rifle so it could be unloaded with the safety on. Included in that price was an
additional safety feature that prevented the trigger from moving once the safety
was in place.

Martin urged the company "not to pass up this opportunity to improve our fire
control."

In 1982, Remington modified the 700 by removing the bolt lock, allowing the
gun to be unloaded with the safety on. But the company made little change in
the firing mechanism.

It also made no move to recall earlier 700s or warn rifle owners of the
danger. In fact, after removing the bolt lock, Remington told customers who asked
about the change that the alterations were "based on the results of an
independent marketing survey in which a greater percentage of the shooters preferred
the capability of opening the bolt with the safety on."

Injuries continued to mount.

In 1985, Remington paid $1.5 million to a New York man who lost a leg after
his 700 accidentally discharged.

Three years later, the company paid $800,000 to an Alaska hunter who was shot
in a similar incident.

Family forces recall after boy’s shooting

In 1994, a Texas jury awarded Glenn Collins $17 million after his foot was
blown off when his 700 accidentally fired as he moved the safety. Collins later
settled for a lesser, undisclosed amount.

Despite its legal losses, and what lawyers suing the company described as an
increased willingness by the new owners to settle cases, Remington would not
publicly admit to a problem in its best-selling 700 rifles.

Then, 9-year-old Gus Barber of Montana was killed on Oct. 23, 2000.

His mother, Barbara Barber, moved the safety while unloading her 700 rifle
when the gun accidentally fired without the trigger being pulled. The bullet
traveled through a horse trailer several hundred feet away, hitting Gus in the
stomach and arm. He died shortly after being rushed to the hospital.

Richard Barber, Gus’ father, and other family members began a crusade to have
the gun recalled. After a series of television appearances and newspaper
stories, they convinced Remington to recall its problem rifles, starting in March
2002.

The recall affects the 700, 721, 722, 40X and 600 series rifles made before
1982 — more than 2.5 million rifles.

Augustis
09-19-2004, 11:24 AM
With Hunting season comming soon I thought I would update this thread with yet still more discussion:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthread...93&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=604053&page=70&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1&vc=1)


Good Luck to all this year and be safe, huh!

Augustis ><>

seamaster
08-03-2005, 12:24 AM
August 2005, do their current manufactured guns still have this problem or risk?

Thanks,
Seamaster

ooja
01-02-2006, 08:09 PM
The Ford Pinto. Enuf said.

Kentuck
05-18-2006, 02:37 PM
Anyone know of a Remington Repair shop in the SF Bay area that I could take my 600 to? It was my first rifle and I got it in 1975??? I have had it go off one time while unloading it. Freaked me out and fortunately I had it pointed in a safe direction. Reading this tells me I need it worked on.

Kentuck

D13er
01-04-2007, 11:30 PM
I just joined the crowd of a 700 firing on closing the bolt. No one was hurt but I nearly killed a duramax. Timney on it&#39;s way.

JB

Abourda
03-31-2010, 09:07 PM
WOW!!! I just read this topic in it's entirety and now I'm a little scared handling my 700. I've had this gun for about 10 years and luckily no problems. I do a lot of big game hunting and most of the time all by myself.

I realize this topic is dated and all the Remington Safety links do not work any more, nor does the CBS special link. Can someone PLEASE help me out and repost or IM me the safety information or email me the info.

Thanks

Goodranger
04-01-2010, 08:44 PM
I believe you can contact Remington and get info on purchasing their new x-mark trigger and having it installed by an authorized gunsmith. I have a 700 and my local gunsmith said the only time he has seen a problem trigger on one is when they get gummed up and dirty. He adjusted mine to 3.5 pounds with no creep, and I clean the trigger group annually with a couple blasts of Crudcutter, re-lube with Rem Oil, and I have had no problems.

gottafish
10-23-2011, 01:09 PM
I just watched the report about this issue witht he 700's on cnbc last week. I am currently borrowing my father inlaws 700bdl chambered in 30.06. With the possibilty of it being a christmas gift to me from the inlaws. Or mayber a small $ purchase.
After watching the report i got really bummed out. thinking i will never be able to afford a 900.00 rifle. Now that i hear there is a safer trigger option out there my hopes are back up. Can any of you out there Pm me with some specific typr of trigger i need to start looking for. i have wanted a model 700 for years now and i finally have my chance. I do have my grandfathers Springfield 03A3 30.06 he brought back from the war but i does not have a milled reciever to mount a scope.